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[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2


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or did Aegons conquest pacify the region: another thing that amnazes me: how "uneventfull" Arianne journey is.

Aegon has barely started his own war for the throne of Westeros, it is going to be a long time before he can do anything about the Stepstones, if he even lives that far.

What I was thinking about is...will the war over the Stepstones escalate to a point where more powers (Myr, Braavos, Lorath, Pentos, Volantis, Summer Islands) get dragged into it? The battles between Lys and Tyrosh seem to have reached a point in which no trading ship will dare to cross the Stepstones.

It would certainly fit the theme of the books, with the Others marching south, the Westerosi slaughtering each other, Dany fighting Yunkai, Tolos, Elirya, Mantarys, Volantis and Qarth, a slave revolt brewing in Volantis, Lys and Tyrosh at war and a corsair king attacking Tall Trees. It seems that GRRM intends for his world to be thrown into complete disarray.

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Uneventful? They were short chapters that both advanced the plot and planted subtle clues to the future of the plot. The fact that there are caves likely warded against the dead and white walkers in Dorne/ the Stormlands. Can't remember which for sure, I think it was Dorne. The obviously foreshadowing for Dany and Aegon fighting, admittedly already foreshadowed. Letting us know that Aegon has taken Storms End, letting us know that Dorans hosts have already lost strength and loose more all the time, letting us know about the Balon Swann Areo Hotah Darkstar plot. I'd say they were more eventful than the usual chapters.

by uneventfull I mean:

no pillaging bands, no raped townfolk, no murder, no marauding bands. Arainne is able to safely travel in the stromlands.

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I'm looking forward to the dornish Presence in the next books .there is s o many characters they seem like they were wronged by targs an they remained loyal.wonder if yronwood will react to losing his heir ? Quentin death disappointed me hoped he survive a book or two.will sand snakes avenge there father the red viper.great character ..aero and dark star alleras ..can't wait .i will takE Adrianne 3..lol

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The plan is for her to travel to Mistwood, then across the Rainwood to Griffon's Roost. The Rainwood is described in great details with several kinds of trees, including weirwood. The going is quite slow. Arianne is amused by the arguments between the maester and the septon accompanying her. Doran used to remark that the differences between septons and maesters are like the differences between Dorne and the Stormlands.

I guess this is a shot in the dark, but does anyone remember any of those details about the Rainwood? I'm one of the guys slugging along over at Westeroscraft, and I can't seem to find any other information than the fact that there were weirwoods. Knowing that it was described in detail is such a horrible tease!

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I don't know if it is the right thread to ask but for Arianne we know: Arianne I is back in Dorne,Arianne II is in Martin's website,but I've read in another thread that she reached Griffin's Roost and learns Aegon is not there and heads to Storms End.So this means Arianne III?

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I don't know if it is the right thread to ask but for Arianne we know: Arianne I is back in Dorne,Arianne II is in Martin's website,but I've read in another thread that she reached Griffin's Roost and learns Aegon is not there and heads to Storms End.So this means Arianne III?

Arianne I is the one published in Martin's site:


She leaves Dorne with Elia and Daemon Sand, and she considers Dany, Quentyn and Jon. They stay with the Tolands, and hear about the Dragon dreams and the Dance.

Arianne II is this thread and this: http://users.livejournal.com/brokenrecord__/304695.html, although apparently, two of them are mixed. Here, Arianne arrives to the Griffin's Roost but neither Aegon nor Jon are there.

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Later she asks Daemon what her father was thinking to send Elia with them. Bemused, Sand answers, "Vengeance."

Are you sure "bemused" is the right word here? I haven't heard the reading, but "bemused" means puzzled or confused and I'm not sure why he would be confused about that question or it's answer.

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What I find most strange is why Doran, who is always patient and reasonable, would send his heir to meet this rebel, who could be an ally or just another doomed pretender? If the Iron Throne finds out about the meeting, they won't be very happy...

because Doran (1) sees a weak King, (2) Cersei as Queen Regent, (3) they tried to kill his son (Trystane), (4) he has heard reports that Quentyn is on his way, and (5) he thinks sealing an alliance with the Golden Company and Jon Connington, may smooth the way for Dany, (6) because he can't trust any other envoy, and (7) because Connington would be an idiot to inform King's Landing that Doran is contemplating an alliance when he needs Dorne much more than Dorne needs him.

It is though that funny that Doran thought Jon Connington was worth a close look but didn't even think twice about Stannis.

Dorans hand is effectively forced by Myrcella's mutilation, Cersei won't be happy it happened under Dorans protection even if they do palm it all off on Darkstar so politically he needs to act quickly to seal any alliance

Also if Aegon is legit than he is his nephew...only way to properly engage is via the heir to Dorne in his own place + one of Oberyns daughters given a letter was sent by Connington

It's a fair bit to risk if it is a fake, Arianne can be prospectively held hostage as stated. I guess he is keeping Trystane with him so he will at least have one progeny

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I have a little theory regarding the Tyrells, but I don't know if this is the proper channel for this post. I'm putting it here because it involves a couple details from the Arianne II chapter discussed in this forum, but feels too off topic and speculative to add to that thread.

I find the Tyrells fascinating, but I don't know how deep or multifaceted they are. They seem largely unified (even if Mace is left in the dark a lot) and completely fixated on gaining power/the throne. After all, the Tyrell words are "Growing Strong." First they backed Aerys during Robert's Rebellion. In my eyes, Robert's side fought for honor, those who backed Aerys did so for duty, or for power. After all, who would have ever believed the Targs would be unseated? When Robert won he pardoned the Tyrells in exchange for their fealty, which places them in the power camp, rather than duty. Then in GoT Renly and Loras seem to have a pet plan to wed Margery to Robert based on a supposed resemblance to Lyana. After Robert is gone they choose Joff, and off Joff to get to the more tractable Tommen. Even Littlefinger respects Olenna as a powerful player of the game, and I think Margaery is Olenna's protege.

Now for speculation: my personal opinion is that Margaery will be found innocent, and Loras' injuries are not what we've been led to believe. The Tyrells are still growing strong. However, the power they've aligned themselves with, that of House Lannister, is not. Here I want to point out something I've noticed about those who were pardoned after Robert's Rebellion - they seem to still be Targ loyalists. (Ser Grandfather and Lord Eunuch jump to mind, as we see them backing the Targs, again or still.) Even further, it was the first Aegon who raised the Tyrells to lords of the Reach over the Florents. We all know that there is an impending return of House Targaryen to Westeros. While Dany's return is the one we've been anticipating, my guess is that the arrival of "Aegon" with JC and the GC will bring about another 'change of heart' for the Tyrells. From what I've read JC & co and the Tyrells are converging on Storms End. I think it's here that the Tyrells rejoin the "Targs" and maybe even arrange to marry Margaery to "Aegon." They value power over honor, so I can see them joining forces with Connington even if they doubt YG's authenticity. Highgarden + GC would be a formidable alliance. It seems vaguely possible to me that Dorne or the Vale might join with that front as well, though I'm torn in that regard. Good cases can be made for and against a Dornish alliance, and while the Tyrells seem to have a good relationship with LF, I think his sights are elsewhere, and tangling LF's plans with Varys' feels messy.

Any thoughts on the future of the Tyrells? or the events at Storms End?

I agree with you about Loras not being half-dead. We never see him. It means we can't be sure of his conditions. I think he will be defending Margery. I think he is fine, and the Tyrells hid him so Cercei could underestimate them.

I also would lave to see a Margery- Aegon proposal - it is getting comical how many husbands will Margery "eat" :D I love this in the story.

I can totally imagine Olenna talking to Margery:

Olenna: "My dear, I have some thinks to tell you. "

Margery: "Just not a new husband again"

Olenna: "..."

I love them also.

Thought the Dorne-Reach conflict is not something which can be forgotten. If Dorne join Aegon, then the Tyrells may not and vica versa.

(Sorry for the mistakes, I am not native)

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I don't think we know what he thought about Robb - he may well have regretted the death of an enemy of the Lannisters.

Baratheon did not start the war anymore than Stark, Arryn and especially the Targaryens themselves did. What started it was Aerys' demands for the heads of Robert and Ned, remember?

More to the point though, the Baratheons did not balk when the Lannisters had Elia and her children killed (the Starks did, though Doran may or may not know that - through the Daynes maybe, or "friends" at court). Stannis also was in charge of the fleet sent to capture (or kill?) Viserys and Daenerys, shortly after the war. He's not a natural ally for Doran.

However, Doran also looks at Connington with suspicion (probably justified, considering Varys' and Illyrio's hands in events).

At that point all, Martell bannermen were either: out of the city, Or dead!

As for the quick taking of Storm's End, when was our last sighting of the sellsail Sallador Sahn? Could he be involved in ferrying the Golden Co. to Westeros? As far as the garrison at Storm's End knows, Sahn's ships are still in the employ of Stannis. If the men who exited those ships broke the Tyrell seige, the defenders may well have thrown their gates open to YG and JC's men, thinking them sellswords in the employ of Stannis. Just a thought....

A very good thought.

Ned's argument with Robert was a very public one, I find it unlikely that Doran didn't heard of it.

there were no martell people there since they were all still in dorne

Didn't Little Fingers get the dragon banners. Seems like a good time to whip them out if your holding the card of Dany coming back with dragons. Aegon plus Sansa = Dorne, North, Riverlands, Targ and they have storms end.

You really Think Aegon would be convined to marry Sansa. I know Aegon know the history of who betray house Targ by JonCon. A marriage between those two will never happen so long as JonCon, Varys, and Dany are still alive.

I think the trial has happened and Margaery has been judged guilty. Mace Tyrell is coming WITH Margaery to make her a queen again. YG is gonna grow strong real quick!

Would be interesting to see a clash between Dorne and Highgarden for the new king.

Sure would be!

One possibility is that they pretended to be allies of the (Stannis) garrison inside the castle, bringing supplies after battling/chasing away the Tyrell holding force, so they could just walk in.

Or maybe Jon Connington knows some secret about the castle that others don't, but that should rather be the province of the Baratheons as those lived there, after all.

Very good possibility. Stannis does have the iron bank's backing, so it not a stretch to pull off.

It seems unlikely the Storm lords have much love for Aegon and Connington at this time - some of the reports on the readings mentioned that the captive ladies and lords (who remained in the captured castles) were not happy with Connington. The way he treats his own family in Griffin's Roost may be an indication of this; he certainly hasn't been making any friends there.

Of course that would be the case. JonCon is a stormlord loyal to the Targs, the other stormlord are layal to the bartheon. Water and oil

I can see you are a bit new to the board as there have been massive threads on the issue posted in ADWD thread. Kind of off topice but here goes... Its all from the early Tyrion chapters.

1. Tyrion finds a statue of Illyrio in his youth. He was a lean and fit sword fighter with blonde hair, and not in the condition he is in now (Aegon in lean and fit).

2. Illyrion tells Tyrion that he is getting master of coin, lands and a castle for his services. Tyrion thinks he is a liar. Tyrion believes he is getting something out of this worth more than any lands, castles or gold (a son on the iron throne).

3. Illyrio tells us that the death of Maelys the Monstrous ended House Blackfyre in the male line (suggesting that a female descendent survived).

4. Illyrio shows Tyrion a picture of his wife Sera. She is pale blonde and blue-eyed, but with a streak of silver in her hair. So we know she has Valaryian (Targaryen blood?).

5. Illyrion seems oddly sad to Tyrion as he cannot go to see Aegon off on his journey. He packs some Aegon's favorite candy in one of the chests and swears not to miss Aegon's marriage by Sera's name (seems quite fatherly).

6. There were early chapters for ADWD that showed even more talk of house Blackfrye in the Tyrion chapters, but was edited out. Many think GRRM did not want to make it too obvious and give away Aegon's true parentage like he did with Jon.

As I said, its not 100%, but it is quite convincing when you think about it. If true he is still a dragon from a cadet branch of house Targaryen with a legit claim to the throne. Sadly, I don't think he is the son of Rhaegar.

1 Anybody can look like a Targ in a Statue.

2 Because Varys and illyrio are the type of ppl they are, they can tell you 3+3=6 and you wouldn't believe them. that may very well be his goal.

3 A descendent of a Blackfyre would not look like Rhaegar's son, so much that it fool JonCon.

4 A girl eyed, gold hair with white streak+ Illyrio will not= Purple eyed, solid white hair boy that look like Rhaegar's son.

5 He raise the boy for five years, Any body would be very fatherly too

6 Please send me link or something of what you are talking about

I think the Lannister/Tyrell monarchy is done. All thats left is to see how fast they crumble. It wouldnt surprise me if Tarly jumped to Aegon betraying Mace and combining their forces to attack Kings Landing so Aegon can sit on the Throne just in time for Dany to show up.

Whats interesting is if Aegon hears about Dany's marriage does Connington then start looking for a match which could lead to Littlefinger and Sansa and the untapped strength of the powerful Vale armies who could descend on Kings landing from the North and by sea while Aegon comes up from the South.

That marriage can be disolve very quickly. Espectly after he tried to kill her other two Dragons.

The whole Targ & Targ didnt even cross my mind, I guess i just assume inbreeding when it comes to them.

Lazy Turtle,

Yeah she has dragons but they're a world away with no indication they're coming to Westeros anytime soon ......... oh and their mommy is currently married already. I forgot to mention it earlier but the fact that Connington has greyscale is going to speed along this invasion and a hasty marriage might be made to secure victory.

GRRM hinted that Dany will be in Westero in WOW.

2nd Dany did say to herself if Aegon was alive she would mary him.

I think it highly likely that we now will see Arianne marry Aegon. There are only two books left and now is the time to see some Martell action. If Connington should take out the Tyrells coming southward to Storm's End, and has got Mathis Rowan, as suggested earlier, the Tyrell will be very weak from then. Loosing both Rowan and Tarly, if he is leading the assault, and maybe even the Redwyne Fleet against Crow's Eye would mean the destruction of their House. As hinted and said in ADwD the Reach were loyal to the Targaryens for a long time and many of them are still waiting for a Targaryen to come back. With fifty thousand spears of Dorne adding to the ten thousand Golden Company and various Reach lords would make their numbers almost equal to those of Renly when he marched on King's Landing.

So finally Doran has the perfect oppurtunity to revenge Elia and Rhaenys, as well as Oberyn. So Martell alliace with Aegon IV rules the east, and the ironmen will probably take the western part of the Seven Kingdoms (Lannisport, Casterly Rock, Highgarden.) Stannis takes the north with the help of Rickon Stark and twenty thousand sellswords from across the narrow sea. Littlefinger decides he sides the Vale will side with Stannis, maybe only because Varys is a Targaryen loyalist, and the three armies clash at the Trident.

The perfect ending for this series would be something akin to that above. I also imagine them all with a dragon each, maybe Dany arrives with Victarion and Jhaqo in the north to side with Jon and Stannis, making Dany and Jon King and Queen in the North and Stannis their Hand, with Drogon. When Victarion sounds the hellhorn, the dragon flies to Euron, as he is the owner of the horn, maybe that will be Viserion. And Aegon, being a dragon himself, takes control of Rhaegal if he turnes up.

This is how I'd end it... (Sorry for going off-topic)

If Aegon truly is a Targ, he need a marriage for an alliance since he would be family.

Dany marrying someone that look like Ned Stark :bang: :dunce: :ack: Allying with some one that tried to kill her :bs: :stillsick:

Mace Tyrell is in charge of the Small Council for now and he hates the Dornish, especially the Red Viper. He won't be happy to learn, that his bastard daughter has a seat in the council and Kevan didn't tell him. He is more likely to insult her or deny her the seat, than to listen to her, thus driving Dorne into an alliance with Aegon.

I think there will be war in the Reach/Stormlands/Dorne between those that accept Aegons claim (Dorne and some or most Stormlords) and those that think he's fake Aegon (the Tyrells and most Lords in the Reach). This war will devastate large regions of the south and deplete there armies.

Then he had better kill them all in KL. Because they are in a good position to open the doors to the GC. That would be very ironic, Aegon taking KL the same way Tywin took it by simply walking in LOL!

Edited by Justin Amey
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