[twow Spoilers] Arianne II, Part 2

[JonCon's Red Beard]

20 minutes ago, Astromech said:

It's been a while since I've read ADWD and can't remember whether or not Septa Lemore is still with JC and Aegon. If she is we may finally either put to rest or confirm the minor theory of Lemore being Tyene Sand's mother.

 

 

That was already debunked by Arianne mentioning her and Tyene had visited her mother in Oldtown.

But yes, Lemore was with Aegon in the camp, so I suppose she went to the Griffin's Roost with him and she might currently be there, safe.

[Astromech]

52 minutes ago, JCRB's Honeypot said:

That was already debunked by Arianne mentioning her and Tyene had visited her mother in Oldtown.

But yes, Lemore was with Aegon in the camp, so I suppose she went to the Griffin's Roost with him and she might currently be there, safe.

Where was the mention of her mother being in Oldtown? I don't remember that.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Just now, Astromech said:

Where was the mention of her mother being in Oldtown? I don't remember that.

 A Feast for Crows - The Queenmaker

Arianne Martell had crossed the Mander once, when she had gone with three of the Sand Snakes to visit Tyene's mother.

[Hos the Hostage]

Once Aegon and the GC has taken the Iron Throne, will they think Dany is disposable, and try kill her and/or her dragons? Aegon would not sanction it, but Varys, Illlyrio, Lysono Maar and Doran(after hearing about Quentyn) will think that she is a complication rather than aid to their cause. These people do not realize the threat about Others, the real reason Westeron needs dragons right now. 

[The Bear]

I'm in the minority because I actually enjoyed it. I love the long, detailed descriptions of locations. I find Arianne's thoughts and the Dornish plot interesting. I could read about the rainwood and the caves all day.

It was smart of GRRM to release a Dorne chapter, ostensibly to counter the absolute bullshit that is GOT Dorne. It was lovely to see some characterisation for Elia (I felt like it was a bit of a 'take that' to the show and their blueprint for a single uncomplicated, hot-tempered, sassy, kind of slutty Sand Snake) and it was quite touching to see Arianne repeatedly worry about her brother. She never had a good relationship with him and always saw him as a rival, but she's maturing and seeing her concern helps to shape her as a character to me.

It's funny how my first couple of times through I had almost no interest in Dorne or the Ironborn and now I actually really enjoy those chapters. The more I re-read, the more interested I am in almost all of the storylines.

Edited May 12, 2016 by The Bear

[Lost Melnibonean]

3 hours ago, Victarion Chainbreaker said:

"The new Daenerys Targaryen"?!!

The scent of victory smells surprisingly like lemons.

But the fruit of the poor lemon is impossible to eat. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

2 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

The thing is Lysono dresses like a woman, has a personality befitting his occupation, and doesn't look anything like Aegon apart from the hair and eyes plus when you consider that Aegon is everything Arianna likes (headstrong, bold, handsome), is a teenager, and she herself an older exotic (in Aegon's eyes) woman experienced in the art of seduction...

As for Elia I can see her causing trouble and, being a teenager herself, making advances on Aegon, but she is still no competition for Arianna. Plus, there is no way JonCon is going to let his prince fall for a bastard cousin who brings nothing to the table. No way in the seven hells.

As for Dany, she's already thinking negatively of her and if Arianna receives a negative telling of Quentyn's death first well one the damage has already been done and two there are no second first impressions.

Please provide the quote where he dresses like a woman...

[bent branch]

Very enjoyable chapter. I had been getting sort of tired of waiting, but this makes me excited about TWOW again.

It is obvious that Lysono Maar is talking about Aegon and not Viserys. Even if Lysono knew Aegon is fake (and WE don't know that he is), he would only refer to him as being the true son of Rhaegar because that is what they want the Martells to believe. This is the problem with most of the Aegon is fake "evidence". You have to already believe Aegon is fake to see the "evidence". Really, there is only one thing in the novels that makes me think Aegon may be fake and the Aegon is fake crowd never mention it.

14 hours ago, Ruhail said:

Damn i really need to read this from what im hearing here and whats this Storm's end has fallen? Wow thats impressive for any commander and their army to achieve i wonder if Stannis will ever find out that hes lost both Storm's end and Dragonstone.

Stannis fully expects to lose both Storm's End and Dragonstone. I don't know why people think this would be such a devastating blow to Stannis. Read AFFC to find out what Stannis has to say about losing these castles.

[Ruhail]

22 minutes ago, bent branch said:

Very enjoyable chapter. I had been getting sort of tired of waiting, but this makes me excited about TWOW again.

It is obvious that Lysono Maar is talking about Aegon and not Viserys. Even if Lysono knew Aegon is fake (and WE don't know that he is), he would only refer to him as being the true son of Rhaegar because that is what they want the Martells to believe. This is the problem with most of the Aegon is fake "evidence". You have to already believe Aegon is fake to see the "evidence". Really, there is only one thing in the novels that makes me think Aegon may be fake and the Aegon is fake crowd never mention it.

Stannis fully expects to lose both Storm's End and Dragonstone. I don't know why people think this would be such a devastating blow to Stannis. Read AFFC to find out what Stannis has to say about losing these castles.

Guess you're right. The others are all that matters now and a united kingdom.

[Lord Varys]

As to the descriptions:

Come on, George has a very unadorned prose. The man focus a little bit on meals and clothes, but that's it. There no good or detailed descriptions of places, buildings, structures, people, or other important features. For instance, the whole cave episode in the chapter could have greatly profited from being longer and more detailed to create a really weird atmosphere for the reader.

2 hours ago, Lost Melnibonean said:

Please provide the quote where he dresses like a woman...

There is a hint that Maar disguised himself as a woman when slipped into Volantis to check out the situation there. We don't see him doing that but the way he talks about it does not suggest that he went in there dressed as a manly man.

Maar gives the creeps to both Jon Connington (who sees him as an effeminate caricature of his dead silver prince) and Arianne. That is not confirmation that men with Valyrian hair and eyes look strange, it is confirmation that the effeminate/affected manner of Lysono Maar is making people uncomfortable who don't know him. It is also not confirmation that he is lying. It just shows that the man exploits the impact his manner and looks have on people to his advantage.

@The Grey Wolf

I don't think Aegon cares about the things Elia has to offer. She is a young tomboy girl who is making out with stable boys. We have no clue that he is into that type of girl. But if he was he is going to take what is offered and discard her later on. Prince Aegon isn't Robb Stark, after all. He is not stupid. And there is no chance that Elia, Connington, or Arianne would support Aegon's weird decision of a bride. Elia should be very aware that Aegon marrying her instead of Arianne isn't going to win him the loyalty of Dorne. Neither Arianne nor Doran would be happy with that.

@Illyrio Mo'Parties

The Epilogue must actually be quite some time after 'The Griffin Reborn' because Kevan already knows about the landing of the Golden Company in the Stormlands in Cersei's first chapter. He just doesn't know yet who they are and what they want. From 'The Griffin Reborn' we learn that no messages got away from Griffin's Roost and the other castles the Golden Company targeted prepared. But ravens did escape from Greenstone on Estermont and Tarth, and it seems Kevan's sources in Cersei 1 were only those letters. In-between Cersei 1 and the Epilogue Connington took Griffin's Roost and wrote his letter(s) to Tommen, claiming that he had just come back to reclaim his birthright. At the same time/shortly thereafter the first rumors about Aegon must have reached the court. That means quite some time must have passed between 'The Griffin Reborn' and the Epilogue.

[HelenaExMachina]

Yeah I don't see this chapter as overly descriptive, especially when you consider that this is a region we've not really seen before (we briefly see Storm's End in Cat's POV, but never so far South as this). Also, is anyone able to compare the length of this chapter with those in the previous books? It feels a lot shorter than many of the chapters in ADWD for example,

[House Cambodia]

Did GRRM actually say it was a 'chapter'? I understood it as an 'extract', being part of a chapter, omitting any content that could be deemed 'spoiler'.

[SeanF]

WRT the sample chapters, I didn't find this one especially interesting, or the Sansa chapter.

OTOH, I absolutely loved Arianne I, Mercy, Theon I, and the chapters about the Battle of Meereen.  As someone who thoroughly enjoyed both Feast and Dance, I've no reason to suppose that I won't enjoy Winds.

[SeanF]

9 hours ago, The Black Adder of Dorne said:

Based on what? That would destroy a significant amount of Arianne's character development in Feast, where the Darkstart fiasco teaches her that she shouldn't be suckered by looks.

She may not be suckered by looks anymore, but she may well be suckered by ambition. 

The prospect of becoming co-ruler of Westeros with Aegon might be very very appealing.

[SeanF]

6 hours ago, The Grey Wolf said:

The thing is Lysono dresses like a woman, has a personality befitting his occupation, and doesn't look anything like Aegon apart from the hair and eyes plus when you consider that Aegon is everything Arianna likes (headstrong, bold, handsome), is a teenager, and she herself an older exotic (in Aegon's eyes) woman experienced in the art of seduction...

As for Elia I can see her causing trouble and, being a teenager herself, making advances on Aegon, but she is still no competition for Arianna. Plus, there is no way JonCon is going to let his prince fall for a bastard cousin who brings nothing to the table. No way in the seven hells.

As for Dany, she's already thinking negatively of her and if Arianna receives a negative telling of Quentyn's death first well one the damage has already been done and two there are no second first impressions.

Arianne has come to the conclusion that Dany is a kinslayer;  that she allowed her brother to be murdered, and then murdered her husband, to further her ambition to be Queen.  And, part of her wants Quentyn never to return from Meereen, while another part of her feels terribly guilty about having such a wish.  And, she resents Dany for denying her the chance to marry Viserys.  When she learns of Quentyn's death, she'll definitely blame Dany.

So, I think that the pair of them are being set up as enemies, and rival Queens of Westeros.  That probably won't turn out well for Arianne.

 

[Endymion I Targaryen]

I really enjoyed to see Arianne's character growing. She is colder,more cautious and has her own will.

As in Arianne I, her dislike for Daenerys and the beauty of Targaryen men appear again. 

If Mace Tyrell leaves King's Landing that means Margaery is free?

The only trouble is that if Arianne hasn't reached Aegon in two chapters then how many chapters will be needed for Aegon to reach King's Landing? Not to mention Dany's return to Westeros.

 

 

 

[The Prince of Magpies]

Given that Aegon was headstrong enough to defy Jon Connington and lead the attack on Storm's End, perhaps he'll fall for Arianne and insist that he can marry her and take Dany as a second wife in emulation of the Conqueror.

[Red Helm]

This book is going to be phenomenal. I absolutely adore A Feast for Crows and A Dance with Dragons as Act II of A Song of Ice and Fire, but I am very eager to see the buildup of Stannis v. Roose and the Bastard, the battle of Meereen, and the chaos in the Stormlands (to name a few) pay off.

[Red Helm]

On 5/12/2016 at 10:31 AM, Lord Varys said:

Come on, George has a very unadorned prose. The man focus a little bit on meals and clothes, but that's it. There no good or detailed descriptions of places, buildings, structures, people, or other important features. For instance, the whole cave episode in the chapter could have greatly profited from being longer and more detailed to create a really weird atmosphere for the reader.

I beg to differ. For starters, I view the prose to be of brevity as oppose to plain (such as Slynt's execution where his death is confirmed in two words: Longclaw descended) and there are plenty of chapters where the prose takes on a more adorned nature, such as Daenerys X of A Game of Thrones.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Red Helm

[RoamingRonin]

1 hour ago, SeanF said:

Arianne has come to the conclusion that Dany is a kinslayer;  that she allowed her brother to be murdered, and then murdered her husband, to further her ambition to be Queen.  And, part of her wants Quentyn never to return from Meereen, while another part of her feels terribly guilty about having such a wish.  And, she resents Dany for denying her the chance to marry Viserys.  When she learns of Quentyn's death, she'll definitely blame Dany.

So, I think that the pair of them are being set up as enemies, and rival Queens of Westeros.  That probably won't turn out well for Arianne.

 

It wouldn't be the first time she decided to hate someone over misinformation.

Oberyn really messed things up for Doran by getting himself killed. Arianne and the Sand Snakes have no business playing this game. Let's hope Trystane amounts to something because this generation of Martells aren't worth much.