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Crannog Man

Is Jayne Westerling Carrying The Heir Of Winterfell?

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Everything in spoiler, just in case. :)

The official ASOIAF app (if you take all that what written there as true) says:

"Jeyne regularly takes a posset her mother gives her after the marriage, which Sybell claims will promote fertility but in fact prevents her from conceiving." ---> about Jeyne Westerling

"Sybell then keeps her daughter supplied with potions and possets that will keep her from conceiving, all the while claiming the opposite." ----> about Sybell Spicer

So, Jeyne not preggy and no Robb Jr.

About the Jeyne Westerling controversial description of her hips, Martin said it was a "mistake."

[Note: This report refers to the question of Jeyne Westerlings hips, described by Catelyn as being "good" for the purposes of having children, and described by Jaime as "narrow". This seeming contradiction has sparked theories that the girl Jaime sees and is told is Jeyne is in fact an impostor.]

I actually asked GRRM about this at the union square signing. When he spoke he said some mismatched descriptions are him doing it on purpose, and some are mistakes. And the mistakes are really unfortunate because it detracts from when he does it on purpose.

When we approached the stage for signings we had the chance to ask a quick question, and he told me that that the hips were a mistake unfortunately.

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I thought of this theory too, but since there is clearly no heir in the HBO show, I assumed there's no relevant heir in the original story either.... that would be TOO much of a change in the adaptation...


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This isn't as clear as the other poster says.

WARNING: INCLUDES MINOR ADWD SPOILERS (nothing crucial to the plot, nothing huge is spoiled, focuses mainly on a conversation between Jaime Lannister, Sybel Spicer (Jeyne Westerling's mother) and "Jeyne")

Catelyn notices Jeyne Westerling's hips, immediately upon meeting her new daughter in law. She sees them as good child bearing hips (which are normally wide, or at least suggest the girl doesn't have a petite frame). Contrast this with how she views Roslin Frey, as delicate and petite with narrow hips. Catelyn is worried about Roslin's fertility, and mentions this to a maester.

In ADWD, Jaime happens upon Riverrun, and without giving anything huge away, he also meets "Jeyne" Westerling (so we're lead to believe). Sybel Spicer, her mother, says that she was giving Jeyne contraceptives (ie moon tea) to ensure she didn't become pregnant by Robb. However, Jaime looks "Jeyne" Westerling over closely, and notes she has breasts like apples, and NARROW hips. This makes no sense - why would Catelyn assess a girl and think "This girl has good hips for child bearing" while Jaime Lannister, assessing "Jeyne" for possible signs of pregnancy, thinks "Jeyne" had NARROW hips (ie not good for childbearing).

Note, Jeyne has a younger sister, named Eleyna (I think). It's quite possible that they presented the younger Westerling girl to Jaime to avoid getting punished (as the Westerlings are Lannister bannermen). Also, the fact that Edmure seems "entirely too smug/pleased" with himself after Riverrun is handed over peacefully, simply for letting the Blackfish escape, doesn't jive with me.

Also, (Spoilers give away more of what happens wrt Riverrun and the Tullys)

when Jaime treats with Blackfish, Jaime makes a comment along the lines of "Why are you still fighting, there's no more King of the North, Robb Stark is dead...why do you still fly the Direwolf Banner?" To which Blackfish responds "Look more closely Kingslayer, the Direwolf still flies above our battlements....the war isn't over" (these aren't direct quotes just paraphrasing).

It would make sense to me if Jeyne, once found pregnant, was secreted off and taken somewhere safe and hidden from the Lannisters or their allies. Hence the continued loyalty to the Starks, and continuing to fly the Direwolf banner - why else would Riverrun still fly the Direwolf banner, if all hope of their cause was lost?

Some mention that Robb Stark did leave a will, and named Jon Snow his heir (assuming Bran and Rickon had been killed, that Sansa was married to Tyrion Lannister, and Arya likely dead).

But resting their hopes solely on the chance that Jon Snow would agree to continue being King of the North seems thin....Catelyn never liked him and she told her relatives he wasn't to be trusted.

It makes a lot more sense to me that Riverrun continuing to fly a Direwolf banner, instead of just their House sigil, the Leaping Trout, suggests that Jeyne Westerling might indeed be pregnant.

GRRM has admitted that the differences in hips notes by Catelyn and Jaime was a mistake. So the difference in description doesn't mean anything.

Bran, Rickon, sansa and arya are still alive, and if jayne's mother made sure she didn't conceive for the year she was married to robb why would she conceive the day before he leaves to die? As George's last FU to the stark children?

Actually, Jeyne and Robb weren't married for a year, but only for a few months, :) They were married somewhere between 4 and 6 months, IIRC.

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