Most cowardly character(s) of the series?

[seanbean4lyfe]

Agree:)

Theon for killing the 2 Miller boys

Roose for not killing Ramsay. He knows what a monster he is.

Joffrey for plotting to kill bedridden Bran

Freys for the Red Wedding. Robb's broken promise deserved retribution but not that cowardly way

Cercei for wanting Lady to be killed instead of Arya's Nymeria. And for trying to kill all of Robert's offspring

i agree these are shitty things to do, but some of them don't seem cowardly to me or dont make the person necassarily a coward.

I think Theon has done some cowardly things, but I don't think he is a complete coward

Roose knows Ramsay is evil, but it is his son...

Red Wedding was pretty cowardly though

Cersei just wanted a direwolf to die, she didnt care which one. She is just an asshole

But i agree about Joff...he's the biggest coward IMO

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

Joffrey for plotting to kill bedridden Bran

Freys for the Red Wedding. Robb's broken promise deserved retribution but not that cowardly way

Cercei for wanting Lady to be killed instead of Arya's Nymeria. And for trying to kill all of Robert's offspring

-Frey's Red Wedding- There was actually a topic a while back justifying the red wedding. Something about the Frey's POV, but was pretty interesting.

-Joff is def a coward.

-Cercei- We have a name for those kind of people. They're called bitch. There's a difference from being a coward.

ETA: I found the link for the Frey's Red Wedding justification

[Fournaridis]

I gotta throw another tally towards Ser Boros.

Coward, through and through. Can't stand to face full grown men, but has no problem beating a helpless young girl.

I hope it ends badly for him.

[Alexia]

I gotta throw another tally towards Ser Boros.

Coward, through and through. Can't stand to face full grown men, but has no problem beating a helpless young girl.

I hope it ends badly for him.

Yay! Someone who agrees with me. Great cowardly Ser Boros moment:

"No man threatens His Grace in the presence of the Kingsguard!"

"I was not threatening the king, I was educated my nephew. Bronn, Timmet, the next time Ser Boros opens his mouth, kill him. Now that was a threat, Ser. See the difference?"

"The queen shall hear of this!"

Yeah, Ser Boros, you're such a big, tough man once you realize that the dwarf has fighters to back him up.... :lol: Oh, and...

"The sight of our cloaks might inflame the mob..."

[Ah Man]

Well, so far, he never faced his opponents. He's smarter than most players of the game of thrones but he's been stabbing on the back his allies. Maybe it's due to his station in Westeros, but did Littlefinger did any brave thing? "Saving" Sansa?

I'm definitely willing to take Littlefinger's side. I think he's enormously brave. He's playing a very dangerous game, and probably has the smallest power base of anyone in the series. I'd compare him to a knight:

-When a knight goes to battle he relies on the quality of his armor and skill at arms. If either of those fail, he dies. Littlefinger is much the same with his cunning. If he lapses once, and does something foolish in the Game of Thrones, he dies.

-In combat, sometimes you just get unlucky. You're dealing with incomplete information. You can't know exactly what the other guy is going to do. Sometimes you have to guess, and if you guess wrong, you die. Littlefinger's the same. Even if he's the very best schemer in the Game of Thrones, his spies aren't everywhere, and at several times he has to rely on other people. If the wrong person let something slip, or the wrong person discovered one of his plots, he dies.

Littlefinger regularly puts himself in danger without so much protecting him as a paper shield; only his cunning. He is at times enormously unethical, but never cowardly. He doesn't shy from putting himself in great danger to achieve his goals, which is basically the definition of courage. He can't compete in the open like Tywin does. He doesn't have an army. Since he has nothing to fall back on, he's actually in more danger than Tywin is, despite having to conceal his activities.

I gotta throw another tally towards Ser Boros.

I'll play devil's advocate on Ser Boros.

He's definitely no paragon of courage (I'd rank Littlefinger as far more courageous), but "Cowardly Ser Boros" is largely a product of being held to the standard of a knight, and a knight of the Kingsguard at that.

I can't think of a time off the top of my head when Boros is cowed where he doesn't perceive himself as being at a disadvantage at arms. He's not at a disadvantage against Jaime, but he definitely seems to think he is. In pretty much every case, if he stood up for himself, he'd have lost.

Let's compare him to Sansa Stark. Sansa rarely shows great courage. When she stands up to Joffrey (regarding the location of his head), she's being brave, but most of the time when she's threatened with the presence of several knights, she tends to do what she's told. I don't think Sansa is a coward, but she's at a big disadvantage and she knows it. Ultimately, Boros is similar. He certainly lacks the courage expected of a knight, but I think his courage is quite on par with the average maester, cook, lady of the court, or farmhand. Perhaps even slightly greater.

After all, if I'm to allow people to duck out when they're clearly at a disadvantage, what makes a coward? If we look at Joffrey, he goes to great lengths to make sure he's never in danger in the first place. Boros, at least, had the guts to become a knight. He's ended up in dangerous situations because of choices he knowingly made. That's got to require some sort of courage.

[Jenny of Oldstones]

Theon for killing the 2 Miller boys

Ooh, forgot about Theon. Yeah, he shows himself to be pretty cowardly in ACoK.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

I submit for your consideration Janos Slynt, mostly because I hate that little weasel. AFAIK, he's the only member of the night watch who, under more or less ordinary circumstances (as opposed to taking refuge at Craster's), refused a direct order from the Lord Commander.

[Queen Cersei I]

Well... though I'm pretty sure that I mentioned Boros Blount myself, one thing in his defense-

in ADwD, he is acting as a food taster for Tommen. Bravely risking himself in a battle against poisons! Way to redeem yourself, Boros, old boy! :lol:

Perhaps if he dies in the line of duty, the bards will compost songs of his heroic last stand....

On topic and following my train of thought Cersie and Joffrey are the most cowardly everything they do is to save themselves.

I disagree. I’d say Cersei does many thigns for her children, and that she would sacrifice herself for them. Regarding her selfishness- it is true that she is incredibly selfish, however, I’m disagree that she is a coward in the same way Joff was. Other things matter more to her than self preservation/ her own safety—such as her dignity, pride, achieving her ambitions, and the safety of her children.

Cersei isn't a coward. She may be crazy, but she is quite the fearless woman.

I agree, but I wouldn't bank on this trait continuing on in future books. If her past "development" is any indication, this mildly poisitive (or, more accurately, neutral/ ambiguous) quality of a mentally unbalanced courage is sure to disappear / be proven false in the next book.

Or at least, this seems to be what happens every time Cersei seems to possess a redeeming quality. For instance, she goes from being a highly imperfect, but nevertheless loving and overprotective mother in the first three books, to a woman who forces her son to witness a horrific whipping for commiting a minor offense in AFFC. (And she further threatens to make him watch his whipping boy's tongue cut out if he ever defends Margary again in the future.) Now there's no doubt Cersei has displayed a definite cruel streak in previous books. But abusing her kid this way? Is this really the same woman who freaked out at the prospect of Tyrion scourging Tommen, and threatened to kill Robert for knocking out Joffrey? Just doesn't add up for me. :dunno:

[Queen Cersei I]

in fact little finger is arguable the bravest in the entire world

Oh, come on. This is just taking the whole Littlefinger fanboyism thing to a whole new level. Yes, I realize that many people bow down to the incredibly (and, imo, unjustifiably) glamorized villain that is Petyr Baelish because he’s “good at what he does” or some crap like that. But he’s a coward on every single level.

First, a physical coward—he would never, ever risk himself.

Secondly, an ethical coward—see above.

Finally, an emotional coward—see his weird “your mother loved me, and gave me something a woman can give a man only once”, etc., etc.” speech to Sansa in ASOS. Even if he is lying for her benefit, imo, he clearly cannot face the truth—that Cat was just not that into him. Her rejection had nothing to do with doing her duty as a Tully.

Instead of admitting that to himself, he has to make up a ridiculous unrequited love story in his head starring him and Cat… and tell it to her daughter! He’s Robert Baratheon all over again. (Pretending that a girl who pretty clearly rejected him really loved him; dressing up the youthful infatuation as “true love”; putting this on a pedestal, and using it as an excuse to, emotionally, stay an adolescent, to never grow up or move on.)

Compared to LF, the loathed Lysa Tully is the friggen dragon knight.

He's definitely no paragon of courage (I'd rank Littlefinger as far more courageous),

Ranking behind Littlefinger in courage strikes me as similar to ranking behind Tyrion Lanister in male beauty.

[Tall Tyrion Lannister!]

LF's anything but courageous.

[The Shy Wolf]

Walder Frey. A craven

[LordBloodraven]

I submit for your consideration Janos Slynt, mostly because I hate that little weasel. AFAIK, he's the only member of the night watch who, under more or less ordinary circumstances (i.e. taking refuge at Craster's), refused a direct order from the Lord Commander.

"I will not have it, Janos Slynt will not have. Godly men will never follow you, bastard".

[SeanF]

One has to distinguish nastiness from cowardice. Doing cruel and unpleasant things to helpless people doesn't necessarily make on a coward. A bully may well be a coward, but he isn't always one.

Cersei is certainly not a coward. She shows considerable personal courage during the siege of King's Landing, and makes it clear that she would rather Ser Ilyn killed her than fall into Stannis' hands. Likewise, she shows courage in ADWD (I won't go into details on this thread).

Ser Boros is pretty cowardly. Aerys is a coward, not because of his paranoia, but because of his reaction when Jaime comes for him, screaming and shitting himself. He can take delight in torturing others, while completely losing his dignity when the tables are turned.. Ditto Viserys.

Littlefinger is no coward. Duelling Brandon Stark, infinitely his superior at fighting, and facing down the Lords Declarant both took plenty of guts.

[A Maidens Fantasy]

Yay! Someone who agrees with me. Great cowardly Ser Boros moment:

"No man threatens His Grace in the presence of the Kingsguard!"

"I was not threatening the king, I was educated my nephew. Bronn, Timmet, the next time Ser Boros opens his mouth, kill him. Now that was a threat, Ser. See the difference?"

"The queen shall hear of this!"

Yeah, Ser Boros, you're such a big, tough man once you realize that the dwarf has fighters to back him up.... :lol: Oh, and...

"The sight of our cloaks might inflame the mob..."

"Paint stripes on a toad, he does not become a tiger". One more vote for Boros as coward no. 1.

Otherwise the first person I thought of when I saw this thread was Hot Pie, but then I remembered he outgrew it.

[Alexia]

I'll play devil's advocate on Ser Boros.

He's definitely no paragon of courage (I'd rank Littlefinger as far more courageous), but "Cowardly Ser Boros" is largely a product of being held to the standard of a knight, and a knight of the Kingsguard at that.

I can't think of a time off the top of my head when Boros is cowed where he doesn't perceive himself as being at a disadvantage at arms. He's not at a disadvantage against Jaime, but he definitely seems to think he is. In pretty much every case, if he stood up for himself, he'd have lost.

Let's compare him to Sansa Stark. Sansa rarely shows great courage. When she stands up to Joffrey (regarding the location of his head), she's being brave, but most of the time when she's threatened with the presence of several knights, she tends to do what she's told. I don't think Sansa is a coward, but she's at a big disadvantage and she knows it. Ultimately, Boros is similar. He certainly lacks the courage expected of a knight, but I think his courage is quite on par with the average maester, cook, lady of the court, or farmhand. Perhaps even slightly greater.

After all, if I'm to allow people to duck out when they're clearly at a disadvantage, what makes a coward? If we look at Joffrey, he goes to great lengths to make sure he's never in danger in the first place. Boros, at least, had the guts to become a knight. He's ended up in dangerous situations because of choices he knowingly made. That's got to require some sort of courage.

Please give one, just one, example of bravery on Ser Boros' part. The worst incident is the one that gained him his food tasting position, when he stepped aside and let Tyrion's men seize Tommen.

OTOH, Sansa does show bravery at various times throughout the book, and the first example that comes to mind is when she is descending the mountain from the Eyrie and helps Sweetrobin over the terrifying stretch that Catelyn had to be helped over with eyes closed. And of course there was the time that she saved Dontos, and stood up for Tommen (more than once).

So in comparing Boros to Sansa, can we come up with just one example (in comparison to the ones that I have presented for Sansa) in which he shows great courage? Just one, that's all I ask.

Ser Boros is beautifully written as a coward though. I rarely reread any of his scenes without laughing, because of moments like "The queen shall hear of this!"

[SeanF]

Ser Boros may be no more cowardly than the average inhabitant of Westeros, but as a knight, we're entitled to judge him by comparison with his fellow knights.

[kav2001c]

Sam by far is the biggest coward (and so overdone I just want him to DIE)

The only other character that would be even close is Sansa (who since book 1 has done absolutely nothing, she might as well be a cardboard cutout for all she has done)

I am stunned anyone would vote for Littlefinger or Varys (are we reading the same books? Both have taken huge risks to further their own agendas) and the many votes for Ser Boros (regardless of him being a weak knight he still rose high enough to get knighthood and even get appointed to Kings Guard). The Freys & Boltons are both the villains people love to hate but no way is either a coward as both have taken huge risks and exposed their houses for personal gain.

[Alexia]

the many votes for Ser Boros (regardless of him being a weak knight he still rose high enough to get knighthood and even get appointed to Kings Guard).

That' s like saying that Gregor must be the flower of chivalry, since he was knighted by Prince Rhaegar. It actually reminds me of

Ser Balon's commentary on Gregor's death to the family of the woman he brutally raped and murdered. And what do you know... Ser Gregor even rose to the Kingsguard himself!

[SeanF]

I think Monty Python applies here:-

"Brave Ser Boros ran away,

Bravely ran away, away,

When danger reared its ugly head,

He bravely turned his tail and fled,

Yes, brave Ser Boros turned about,

And gallantly, he chickened out,

Bravely taking to his feet,

He beat a very brave retreat,

Bravest of the brave, Ser Boros."

[littlespider]

OTOH, Sansa does show bravery at various times throughout the book, and the first example that comes to mind is when she is descending the mountain from the Eyrie and helps Sweetrobin over the terrifying stretch that Catelyn had to be helped over with eyes closed. And of course there was the time that she saved Dontos, and stood up for Tommen (more than once).

Yep. But she also shows courage long before this as well: looking at Ned's head. It's not the kind of courage expected out of someone like Boros (an utter failure), or Jon, or even Arya. But courageous all the same.