[ADwD Spoilers] Could the Stone Dragons Melisandre was talking about really be...

[Tom Sawyer]

Interesting thought occurs to me here. Its died down a bit lately but there used to be a lot of speculation as to what Illyrio (and Varys) are really up to.

Dany is a good candidate for AA, having been born on Dragonstone, which GRRM assures us twice in two consecutive pages is smoking and surrounded by the salt sea. Illyrio is aware of this. Maesters, we know, have telescopes and presumably could see the red comet approaching long before ordinary mortals. Illyrio has dragon eggs from Asshai. They are represented as ancient, but Bran has seen live dragons out there, so they could be fresh. Does Illyrio know this? We have been told different versions of the AA prophecy which are generally consistent but differ in detail and each add something different. Does Illyrio know the full version and is he giving the whole thing a nudge by presenting the girl born amidst smoke and salt with fresh dragon eggs as the red star approaches and is this why he and Varys were concerned that the timing of the war in Westeros was premature?

Ya, we haven't seen the full text of the prophecy to be able to parse it out in any great detail, but Aemon did. The Targs have been working on this prophecy for a while and his brother died trying to fulfill it and he went up to the Wall so that he could be there to help out while the fulfillment was occurring. When Martin had Aemon say "Oh, this means it's all talking about Dany and not Rhaegar", that was his way of telling the reader that it was talking about Dany since Aemon is a guy who's opinions regarding the prophecy can be trusted and he could see how her having the dragons made the pieces fit together correctly. It's the same with Marwyn getting on a ship to go see her as soon as he talked to Sam. The characters which he gave the knowledge regarding the situation are the ones he had realize that she actually fits the checklist. Even with Mel, he gives the specific rationales as to why she made the mistake of thinking it's Stannis and the readers have the additional knowledge which she lacks to see the logic errors she made.

It's not like Martin had Pyp or Moon Boy fling a dead cat into a crowd and call whoever got hit the Saviour, he had the people he wrote to be knowledgable about the situation inform the reader what the situation is. It's like at the end of ASOS when he had Littlefinger explain all the plotting to Sansa - he had the guy who did the plotting sum up for the reader what all the plotting from the last couple of books had been about. That wasn't to confuse the reader with false trails, it was having the character with expertise in the area being discussed pass that expertise on so that Martin could tell the reader what it was he'd written about.

[Gromdal]

It's the same with Marwyn getting on a ship to go see her as soon as he talked to Sam

Its also inetresting to me how people forget what Marwyn said about the prophecy, that you can't rely on it or that it doesn't have to be true.

Dany is maybe to obvious choice, but I still see her to be AA more than Jon. Jon is also obvious and from the start of the series we are led to believe that Jon is the hero of the series who will save the day, and on the other side we are told over and over again that there no such heroes. I just can't fit Jon in AA after reading Martin's work and concidering the way he writes and creates the world. But I don't think that Jon's dead either.

Other than these two I either believe that prophecy is not true, or that its something else totally than what it seems, or that AA refers to more people than one.

As of 3rd characters that can maybe be AA I only see Davos, he was reborn in the smoke, salt and fire under the bloody star, and only thing that lacks are dragons from the stone. And we know hes on hes way to Skagos (stone in the old tongue). And Skagos looks as mystical place where even unicorns may live, and maybe even dragons.

[Cydal]

Jon or Dany are AA

or Both with Bran.

[Cydal]

Ya, we haven't seen the full text of the prophecy to be able to parse it out in any great detail, but Aemon did. The Targs have been working on this prophecy for a while and his brother died trying to fulfill it and he went up to the Wall so that he could be there to help out while the fulfillment was occurring. When Martin had Aemon say "Oh, this means it's all talking about Dany and not Rhaegar", that was his way of telling the reader that it was talking about Dany since Aemon is a guy who's opinions regarding the prophecy can be trusted and he could see how her having the dragons made the pieces fit together correctly. It's the same with Marwyn getting on a ship to go see her as soon as he talked to Sam. The characters which he gave the knowledge regarding the situation are the ones he had realize that she actually fits the checklist. Even with Mel, he gives the specific rationales as to why she made the mistake of thinking it's Stannis and the readers have the additional knowledge which she lacks to see the logic errors she made.

It's not like Martin had Pyp or Moon Boy fling a dead cat into a crowd and call whoever got hit the Saviour, he had the people he wrote to be knowledgable about the situation inform the reader what the situation is. It's like at the end of ASOS when he had Littlefinger explain all the plotting to Sansa - he had the guy who did the plotting sum up for the reader what all the plotting from the last couple of books had been about. That wasn't to confuse the reader with false trails, it was having the character with expertise in the area being discussed pass that expertise on so that Martin could tell the reader what it was he'd written about.

Aemon has been so good with prophecies and yet he's had it wrong multiple times, Also i remember the Marwyn you just mentioned saying how prophecy is not all that easy to decipher. I'm of the opinion that three people are AA or AA is three people

[Ivy Snow]

I would agree with Danny being way too obvious as AA. This books i often cryptic in nature, and it would be just too obvious if Danny is the savious of all. It's just been rubbed to our faces so much, that maybe it's just not her.

[Black Crow]

Although we've all (me included) been fixated on the notion that there is already an AA and that its just a matter of deciphering the clues to identify him or her, do we actually know whether the prophecy is passive or active?

ie; is AA already walking amongst us and only waiting to be recognised, or... can anybody be AA providing they fulfill all of the known criteria?

Just sticking with Dany for the moment. We all know that she was undoubtedly born amidst smoke and salt, so that places her on the board. Is she a warrior? No, but marry her off to a warrior prince and that might fit. Sword... Lightbringer... tricky. No hang on, its got to be metaphorical because one sword is just one sword, but there's the bit about waking dragons from stone. Right, she's Targarayen and we can get her some fresh eggs from Asshai, got to be quick though because the red star is coming...

Now this, as I suggested last night is the thought process being followed by Illyrio and Varys.

Then we've got Stannis. Resident on Dragonstone and so amidst smoke and salt, but not actually born there. Tricky. Red star is here though so if burning sword can be drawn from the flames under it he can be reborn amidst aforementioned smoke and salt. Sorted.

Thus Mel, though its not entirely clear why she fastened on him in the first place given the far greater degree of manipulation required.

Jon; far more difficult. Lot of fanbase out there, but so far he meets none of the criteria. Lots of fevered attempts to tie up smoking wound, salt tears and the late Ser Patrek's stars, but apart from the contrivance necessary it overlooks the startling obvious point that he's being offed, not reborn. Now whether he'll subsequently be reborn on the deli counter as someone put it remains to be seen, but essentially the process if there is to be one at all, hasn't yet started and unless the comet is going to swing around the sun and head back any time soon he's missed it.

Either way neither he nor anybody else is lining up his ducks.

[The Great Cornholio!]

I can never see Dany as AA because she's not a warrior. She's a tough person, and now a dragon rider, but nowhere near a warrior. If George R Martin spends the next couple of books training her into one, that would be lame.

Furthermore, waking and birthing from stone are too different things. Waking implies something that was already in a state of life, but was put to sleep. I think AA is yet to be revealed because the situation has yet to be apocalyptic. My guess is in the next book we'll be have a better idea who AA is.

[the average Other]

In my opinion, the stone dragons at Dragonstone are real Dragons petrified by Greyscale. I was surprised that Greyscale was featured so prominently in this book. My guess is that Azor Azhai has the ability to cure greyscale (if we believe Jon is it, he could test it on the lil Princess). Maybe Greyscale is some sort of biological warfare that was created by the Citadel to counter the threat dragons posed. This could explain why we see it most prominently near Valyria and at Dragonstone. It affecting humans may only be a side effect.

I like this. Incidentally, wasn't it Shireen a.k.a. the girl with greyscale who dreamt that the stone dragons were alive and coming to eat her? Could be that her having survived the same disease made her sensitive to the stony dragons' hungry dreams...

Re: AA

I'm pretty sure that someone told Dany in ADwD that her dragons are a flaming sword held over all of Essos. So technically the dragons can be seen as a metaphorical sword she drew from flames.

[NurseNinja]

Heres another idea to muse. Loras is a warrior and is on dragonstone very ill near death we are lead to believe. Perhaps his recovery there will also be linked with one of the stone dragons been woken and him being reborn amid fire and salt to be AA.

Only death can pay for life

[Black Crow]

I would agree with Danny being way too obvious as AA. This books i often cryptic in nature, and it would be just too obvious if Danny is the savious of all. It's just been rubbed to our faces so much, that maybe it's just not her.

Obvious, but perhaps not necessarily in the way most people think. There are a lot of signs both subtle and unsubtle that Dany is AA. On the basis of what we've got she is AA; the only real doubt being whether somebody else in some horribly convoluted way can be squeezed into the criteria - or there turns out to be something else in the prophecy that hasn't been revealed yet. Now yes, she does appear to be far too obvious, but not if its a double bluff and that AA isn't the saviour of the world.

[Floria]

or Both with Bran.

just my thoughts. Why can't AA be multiple persons? Maybe the prophecies of AA and the three headed dragon refer to the same persons. Dany has the dragons, Jon maybe Lightbringer, and person 3 has.. whatever.

[iNinja]

If "wake dragons from stone" is more cryptic than literal, it could foreshadow a greyscale plague that will infect Westeros. Perhaps Cersei will handle it poorly (imagine that) and the people will rise up in support of Aegon & Connington (i.e. to wake dragons from stone). Just a thought.

Or, it could mean, "wake the Great Bastards (dragons) from Casterly Rock (stone)". If Jaime and Cersei are really Targ Great Bastards, the prophecy might have something to do with alerting them to that fact. We know Bloodraven and Daemon Blackfyre had a pretty major impact on the realm, and if Jaime is really a Targ Great Bastard, like Blackfyre, or Bloodraven, big things could be in store for him as well.

But isn't waking the dragons from stone clearly what Dany. She hatched dragons out of stone dragon eggs.

[hotweaselsoup]

Jon; far more difficult. Lot of fanbase out there, but so far he meets none of the criteria. Lots of fevered attempts to tie up smoking wound, salt tears and the late Ser Patrek's stars, but apart from the contrivance necessary it overlooks the startling obvious point that he's being offed, not reborn. Now whether he'll subsequently be reborn on the deli counter as someone put it remains to be seen, but essentially the process if there is to be one at all, hasn't yet started and unless the comet is going to swing around the sun and head back any time soon he's missed it.

Either way neither he nor anybody else is lining up his ducks.

There is a possibility that Mel herself is the "red star" - at a couple of points in the text her ruby is described as such - and that her death, her blood somehow brings about Jon's rebirth. I can see a very theatrical concentration of heat and light at the moment of her death (via a sword through her heart, perhaps?), and I can see this extreme heat cracking the Wall, and hatching Jon.

[nubreed000]

Wouldn't it be funny if we're never explicitly told who AA is, and we as readers are left to reach our own conclusions. I actually wouldn't be surprised if that would be the case...

edit: first post!

[hesitantreader]

As of 3rd characters that can maybe be AA I only see Davos, he was reborn in the smoke, salt and fire under the bloody star, and only thing that lacks are dragons from the stone. And we know hes on hes way to Skagos (stone in the old tongue). And Skagos looks as mystical place where even unicorns may live, and maybe even dragons.

I like this idea, but mostly because I would rather read a dozen chapters about Davos then more Dany and Jon at this point.

[ARYa_Nym]

just my thoughts. Why can't AA be multiple persons? Maybe the prophecies of AA and the three headed dragon refer to the same persons. Dany has the dragons, Jon maybe Lightbringer, and person 3 has.. whatever.

I definitely think it's a holy trinity type of situation. Three make one.

[Ser Elfor the Landstander]

In my opinion, the stone dragons at Dragonstone are real Dragons petrified by Greyscale. I was surprised that Greyscale was featured so prominently in this book. My guess is that Azor Azhai has the ability to cure greyscale (if we believe Jon is it, he could test it on the lil Princess). Maybe Greyscale is some sort of biological warfare that was created by the Citadel to counter the threat dragons posed. This could explain why we see it most prominently near Valyria and at Dragonstone. It affecting humans may only be a side effect.

I like it too.

When you think about it, how did the dragons become extinct? They are massively powerful beasts without a natural predator, except man. I guess a combined effort with hundreds or thousands of dragonslayers could bring a few down, but I still have my doubts.

And we did hear an awful lot about greyscale in ADWD... Well, hopefully we'll get more info during Sam's POVs in Oldtown.

I remember something about a stone dragon somewhere during Dany's trip in Qarth, with those Undying. I'd have to read ACOK again to check, but I'm certain it mentions a stone dragon.

EDIT: Found it. It took longer because I went to the book itself, because I don't trust everything in the internet: "Glowing like sunset, a red sword was raised in the hand of a blue-eyed king who cast no shadow. A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. From a smoking tower, a great stone beast took wing, breathing shadow fire..." (A Clash of Kings, p. 706 - US edition)

So it doesn't mention a stone dragon specifically, so I was wrong there. It wouldn't make sense for the beast to be a dragon, because that simple word could have been used quite easily. Well I still like the idea of greyscale as an extinction level event for dragons. It even has scale in the name! Fantastic theory, by the way.

It also occurs to me that I forgot to discuss the OP.

I think we'll see Ice Dragons before this Song is over. However, they would be evil or possibly controlled by evil forces - the Others. My main reason is that Dany's dragons are the ultimate weapon against the Others. If she ever shows up in Westeros while Others are marching down from the Wall (either destroyed or trespassed), her fire breathing dragons would cut through those undead armies like they were made of paper and the battle would be over in a heartbeat.

The only way to make the battle more interesting is to give the Others a way to counter Dany's fire dragons. Enter the Ice Dragons. I'm assuming three could be the number, to make it a fair fight. This way, the undead armies could last longer and cause more damage on the battlefield while the dragons fight in the skies.

But six just isn't the magic number, so a seventh dragon shows up, this one made of stone to represent the balance between Ice and Fire. From then on my imagination fails me, and I have no idea what may happen.

This is, of course, all wild speculation without any evidence to support the claim, except a few pieces of vague prophecies and the dreams and hopes of one reader.

[Lemon of Lemonwood]

Although it seems to me that this vison is associated with Dragonstone,why does it have to refer to an actual dragon?Wouldn't an erruption of Dragomount ,which seems to be still pretty active,be more likely?Keep in mind that Mirri Maz Duur's prophesy of

mountains blow in the wind like leaves.

seems a hint of a volcanic erruption aswell.

[Lord Liam DarkStark]

I think if we get an ice dragon. It will be a wighted dragon. If dragon's were woken from stone. It was most likely dany waking her dragon's from the stone eggs. Cause stone is not like ice. Not really....their only similarty is that ice blocks were used to build the wall and benjen had said the blocks in the center are as hard as stone. But One is part of the earth (stone). The other is an H2O chemical reaction.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I rather like the idea of Davos fulfilling this prophecy. Perhaps mel's visions that led her to Stannis were guiding her to his most leal and loyal servant... The Onion Knight!

it would be ironic as they've worked against each other, and though mel searches endlessly for AA his is right under her nose, and doesn't care much for R'hllor LOL.

What about Thoros? I've never heard him put forward as a candidate but from what I can tell he is the only red priest that is kind/good. (ie doesn't burn people. seeks justice, is empathetic to Brienne and Pod; questions BWB actions under Un-cat. I know not likely based on current evidence but I can't help but think that the "kiss of fire" resurrections are important.