Small Questions XII

[Buried Treasure]

To respond to a couple of questions that got missed:

Another one , In aDwD, one of the Frey boy is found dead ( little Frey if i am right), right, who killed him? (Sorry cause i really tried to do a reread but find it kind of difficult to do it just 2 month after reading the book) I am rereading aCoK and it is taking me like forever). Thanks!

We don't know for certain, there are two main candidates:

The other Walder (theorised because he is covered in his cousins blood although the blood on the body is dried /frozen, his motive would be that his cousin is becoming cruell like Ramsay).

Somebody in service to Lord Manderly (generally because he hates Freys, specifically because Little(?) Walder was bethrothed to his granddaughter).

I can never keep Big Walder / Little Walder straight either, as for the murder my money is on Manderly.

What are the bog devils? I know they reside on the Iron Islands.

I hear Victarian mention them in AFFC which is the reason he wears mail day and night due to their poison arrows.

I haven't heard them mentioned since, What are they exactly??

Bog Devils = Crannogmen. I don't recall when Victarion spoke of always wearing armour, but he was in command of Moat Cailin in the Neck for a while. The Crannogmen are trying to wear down all the enemies of the North that pass through the Neck.

[corbon]

You're on about Craster right?

Craster at first appears to sacrifice his infant sons to the Others, but then his wives reveal that at least some of the Others are his sons: “The boy’s brothers,” said the old woman on the left. “Craster’s sons. The white cold’s rising out there, crow. I can feel it in my bones. These poor old bones don’t lie. They’ll be here soon, the sons.

So you may be right.

But probably not.

Craster sacrifices his newborn sons to the Others.

One of Crasters wives thinks that the White Walkers are Craster's sons, yes.

But the chance that she is right is virtually nil.

The White Walkers are the generic term for Others used among the wildlings.

They are definitely non-human, literally melting when stabbed by dragonglass. They are tall and gaunt with pale skin and glowing blue eyes, and are associated with unnatural cold.

All that is happening here is that the wife knows Craster's sons get 'sacrificed' to the white walkers , who bring the cold, and has put that together in her mind so that the sons 'become' the Others (otherwise what she is a part of is unconscionable - giving her own babes to demons in order to get protection for herself. But if the babes instead become the demons, then its kind of all right).

It cleaves (as opposed to stretches) disbelief to think that she has actually witnessed a 'transformation ceremony' or something similar that turns a newborn human babe into a man-sized ice-demon, or recognised a babe in a full grown white walker's face, even if she has actually seen the White Walkers herself at least once. :rolleyes:

[ZacharyB]

I was re-watching the first GOT episode last night, and two questions popped into my head:

1) Why were direwolves found south of the wall?

2) Why did Benjen Stark join the NW?

To #1, along with/to add on to what everyone else has said, it's supposed to be symbolic. The mother of the baby direwolves is found with the antler of a stag lodged into its throat. Silly Ned ignores this sign and goes South anyway.

[rmholt]

I was re-watching the first GOT episode last night, and two questions popped into my head:

1) Why were direwolves found south of the wall?

2) Why did Benjen Stark join the NW?

Benjen was also the youngest son. This may have had an influence.

[Serie]

2) Why did Benjen Stark join the NW?

The actual reason is never mentioned in the books. So there are only speculations as other people have already mentioned. And there is always the theory that

Benjen knew about the relation between Rhaegar and Lyanna and he joined the NW out of guilt after Lyanna's death.

[Lady Littlefinger]

Bog Devils = Crannogmen. I don't recall when Victarion spoke of always wearing armour, but he was in command of Moat Cailin in the Neck for a while. The Crannogmen are trying to wear down all the enemies of the North that pass through the Neck.

Ahh thank you. I've just read the AFFC chapter that mentions them and realised that I'd never heard of them before. Thought this was odd but never put 2 + 2 together and realised they were crannogmen.

[Lady Littlefinger]

But probably not.

Craster sacrifices his newborn sons to the Others.

One of Crasters wives thinks that the White Walkers are Craster's sons, yes.

But the chance that she is right is virtually nil.

The White Walkers are the generic term for Others used among the wildlings.

They are definitely non-human, literally melting when stabbed by dragonglass. They are tall and gaunt with pale skin and glowing blue eyes, and are associated with unnatural cold.

All that is happening here is that the wife knows Craster's sons get 'sacrificed' to the white walkers , who bring the cold, and has put that together in her mind so that the sons 'become' the Others (otherwise what she is a part of is unconscionable - giving her own babes to demons in order to get protection for herself. But if the babes instead become the demons, then its kind of all right).

It cleaves (as opposed to stretches) disbelief to think that she has actually witnessed a 'transformation ceremony' or something similar that turns a newborn human babe into a man-sized ice-demon, or recognised a babe in a full grown white walker's face, even if she has actually seen the White Walkers herself at least once. :rolleyes:

Either way the sacrifice of Crasters sons is directly connected to the others.

I've seen a thread here before discussing this and it was a good debate. I think it depends on what you believe in. I don't think we will know for sure IMO. For all we know Crasters infant sons could just provide the others with nutrients and strength but it's just weird how Crasters wife refers to the sons in a present tense rather than a past tense.

I agree that the idea of baby wights is laughable LOL.

[alienarea]

Two questions about the dead direwolf mother in AGOT:

1) Is this also a hint that the connection to the North, possibly the Others, comes from the female side of the Stark family?

2) Does Ghost being apart from the other puppies hint at Lyanna as his mother?

[FanTasy]

Two questions about the dead direwolf mother in AGOT:

1) Is this also a hint that the connection to the North, possibly the Others, comes from the female side of the Stark family?

2) Does Ghost being apart from the other puppies hint at Lyanna as his mother?

I don't think so. I saw the dead wolf as a foreshadowing that Ned would be killed by a Baratheon.

That the wolf is female has to do with the birth of the pups.

I don't see the connection Ghost - Lyanna ... can you please elaborate on this?

[Snow_Flake]

there is, but i think that the rope Brienne was hanging from was cut down before she died.

Sorry to appear stupid again...but my Brienne- Jamie- stuff ends when Brienne is hanged. Can it be i am missing a chapter in my recordings???

[FanTasy]

Sorry to appear stupid again...but my Brienne- Jamie- stuff ends when Brienne is hanged. Can it be i am missing a chapter in my recordings???

I will not elaborate in case of spoiling - more ... have you read ADWD?

[Snow_Flake]

I have listened to the audio- book. So i seem to have missed some more, did i? Oops....

[FanTasy]

I have listened to the audio- book. So i seem to have missed some more, did i? Oops....

You did not miss much ... there are a very few lines in ADWD about Brienne.

[alienarea]

I don't think so. I saw the dead wolf as a foreshadowing that Ned would be killed by a Baratheon.

That the wolf is female has to do with the birth of the pups.

I don't see the connection Ghost - Lyanna ... can you please elaborate on this?

Maybe I oversymbolized (is that a proper word?) the dead dire wolf. I understand the pups won't be there if the dead wolf is a male but somewhere around here it was hinted that a male Stark had a "pale wife" or something like that, i.e. a connection to the Others.

As for the Ghost - Lyanna connection: The dead wolf with the antler is a symbol for Ned dying because of Robert, that is obvious. Ghost being away from the other pups symbolizes that he is of Stark heritage, but not of the same parents. Train of thought: Dead female wolf -> dead mother -> still being of Stark heritage = mother is Lyanna?

[FanTasy]

Maybe I oversymbolized (is that a proper word?) the dead dire wolf. I understand the pups won't be there if the dead wolf is a male but somewhere around here it was hinted that a male Stark had a "pale wife" or something like that, i.e. a connection to the Others.

As for the Ghost - Lyanna connection: The dead wolf with the antler is a symbol for Ned dying because of Robert, that is obvious. Ghost being away from the other pups symbolizes that he is of Stark heritage, but not of the same parents. Train of thought: Dead female wolf -> dead mother -> still being of Stark heritage = mother is Lyanna?

Ah ... now I see what you mean. Good line of thought. Yes, that there were initially five pups, one for ever Stark child, was probably why GRRM took care one of the pups was separated from the rest. And that pup was for Jon, who was not a Stark kid.

The pale wife was taken for a wife by the Night King, who probably was a Stark. I don't recall if it is described they got babies. If the pale woman was an Other it would be interesting to know what happened to these babies, and what they looked like :cool4:

[Alia of the knife]

A question, (and I apologize if this has been covered, but I just saw this mentioned on another post).

Someone posted that Roberts hatred of Rhaegar went further back than the rebellion, though in what I've read, everyone seems fairly amicable at the Tourney with Robert boasting he would find the TKOTLT for Aerys.

They were cousins, with his Grandmother being a Targ.

If this is true, when did Robert start hating Rhaegar?

Did he see something at the Tourney of Harrenhal that made him angry, (i.e.,Rhaegar flirting openly with Lyanna)?

I'd always wondered at this anyway, since Lyanna and Robert were supposedly at the Tourney unless they were not Betrothed yet, (though still it's stated that Robert loved her from afar).

???

[FanTasy]

A question, (and I apologize if this has been covered, but I just saw this mentioned on another post).

Someone posted that Roberts hatred of Rhaegar went further back than the rebellion,

Is there some reference in the text for that?

[Alia of the knife]

Is there some reference in the text for that?

I guess thats my question, for though I am a notorious "speed reader," I don't think I saw anything in the books to suggest that, so I was just wondering if I'd missed something, a statement, or POV perhaps.

As to the context of the Posters statement, I'm sad to say I can't remember what thread it was in.

But, they were talking about Roberts notorious hatred for the Targaryens overall, and stated that Robert had hated Rhaegar even before the rebellion.

[Dragonfish]

I guess thats my question, for though I am a notorious "speed reader," I don't think I saw anything in the books to suggest that, so I was just wondering if I'd missed something, a statement, or POV perhaps.

As to the context of the Posters statement, I'm sad to say I can't remember what thread it was in.

But, they were talking about Roberts notorious hatred for the Targaryens overall, and stated that Robert had hated Rhaegar even before the rebellion.

I think it was mentioned in the "Is Aegon VI fake?" thread.

I personally don't recall any mention of Robert hating Targaryens even before Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna. It's possible the poster was just mistaken (or they just have a better memory than all of us).

[Alia of the knife]

I think it was mentioned in the "Is Aegon VI fake?" thread.

I personally don't recall any mention of Robert hating Targaryens even before Rhaegar "kidnapped" Lyanna. It's possible the poster was just mistaken (or they just have a better memory than all of us).

No, I didn't recall anything either.

When I saw that, I was wondering if I'd missed some other back story.

Going back for a re-read on everything now that I have more time. :)