Curethan Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Continue. And does this mean Kellhus's halo'ed hands are indicative of something that genuinely ties into that judgement framework? Haven't seen any haloes this series have we? No true-believer PoVs. Off topic: What are topic tags anyhoo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 Proyas sees Kellhus with halohands/halo throughout WLW. The Believer-kings also see him with halos (in 3rd pers omniscient sections). Sorweel compares Serwa's hair to her father's halo. So even after the disturbing convos Proyas still sees the halos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 If people want to see something in Earwa, does it make it real? We know damnation is objective, but what about the rest of reality? Do people see halos because of their expectation? Is this bending of reality the reason even false prophecies must be guarded against or supported (whatever the UC is doing)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokisnow Posted October 11, 2011 Share Posted October 11, 2011 btw, bakker said in the comments on his latest blog post that he's finished his first Atrocity Tale, about the creation of the Consult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted October 11, 2011 Author Share Posted October 11, 2011 Thanks for correction Aimless. Was thinking I should check Proyas' sections after posting. Sciborg, people see what they expect to see. More so in Earwa. People carry their own little subjective realities around. Topoi, gods and haloes seem to be like areas where they overlap and make reality conform (to lessening extents). Like undirected sorcery.Extending that logic to prophecy supports your reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'm tempted to make a scatological pun about atrocity tails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Atrocity Tale finished? Oh thank god, I was worried he was going to go on wanking forever about the injustices of the literati. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Do people see halos because of their expectation?If so, why could Kelhus see the halos? Didn't the logos ritual lock away that legion stuff in him? Or if enough people have expectations, does it make some sort of actual halo material manifest? And is it funny that it can form around someone who doesn't believe in himself (not as a prophet, as far as I can tell, anyway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WrathOfTinyKittens Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 But it's not clear whether or not they always see the halos. I think that, at least in the original trilogy, Kellhus himself did not always see them, but for example Serwe always did. It is my recollection that Proyas sees them pretty much all the time in WLW and that Esmi also did in TJE - am I remembering correctly? In any case, that is an important detail to consider when trying to parse this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aimlessgun Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 Yeah in the original trilogy I remember the halos being more dubious/variable. Though in TJE/WLW other POVs see Kellhus far less often, and we don't have Kellhus PoVs anymore, so there's not as much to work with. I'm actually pretty sad we don't get Kellhus PoV's anymore, but I suppose he Knows Too Much. Far, far too much. But if Bakker is going to give us a ton of expository info on Earwan metaphysics in the next book maybe that means we can have a Kellhus PoV? Though writing a Kellhus POV without ruining the mystery of his motives/ultimate plans would be pretty tricky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted October 12, 2011 Author Share Posted October 12, 2011 But it's not clear whether or not they always see the halos. I think that, at least in the original trilogy, Kellhus himself did not always see them, but for example Serwe always did. It is my recollection that Proyas sees them pretty much all the time in WLW and that Esmi also did in TJE - am I remembering correctly? In any case, that is an important detail to consider when trying to parse this. Kellhus sees them after the circumfixion. Serwe sees them on a skin spy impersonating Kellhus. This is the biggest clue that they are a subjective manifestation. For example, when my son looks at me he sees his father, you would see just some guy. Infered meanings like this have much more importance and 'reality' in Earwa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'm quite curious about these Atrocity Tales. Looking forward to reading them. Nice! Any word on when/how it will be...published? I wondered if perhaps he was just going to add an "Atrocity Tale" section on the blog like the essay section. From what I gather, he'll be publishing them on his blog. Not sure if he means to do that before or after The Unholy Consult comes out. I think after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Screaming Turkey Ultimate Posted October 12, 2011 Share Posted October 12, 2011 I'm quite curious about these Atrocity Tales. Looking forward to reading them. From what I gather, he'll be publishing them on his blog. Not sure if he means to do that before or after The Unholy Consult comes out. I think after.I was under the impression he would release them before the next book. I think that's what he said, anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Serwe sees them on a skin spy impersonating Kellhus. This is the biggest clue that they are a subjective manifestation.Did she? I'll have to read that again... But then that nails it - why does Kellhus see them? He's not exactly a Serwe or a Proyas (or even an Akka, who saw them from time to time)? The Dunyain conditioning just isn't good enough to block that out yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antonius Pius Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 I was under the impression he would release them before the next book. I think that's what he said, anyway. Even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unJon Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Or maybe just maybe Kellhus is actually objectively blessed. Such was their desire to believe.Or maybe just maybe Kellhus is actually objectively crazy. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcus Cicero Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Who thinks that we'll ever see Mimara's Judging Eye open in front of Kellhus? If we do, it definitely won't be soon. It would answer too many of these questions in one fell stroke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Callan S. Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Or maybe just maybe Kellhus is actually objectively blessed. Such was their desire to believe.Must...resist...urge to engage dissonance of 'objectively'! But, forfilling, roughly, a whole worlds criteria for blessed, that's a pretty dang big thing! That damn manipulator, Kellhus! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Borric Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 hi all, This thread has been an eye opener for me. It’s forced me to look at a concept i had dismissed out of hand from the beginning of the AE series. That being the “gods” in all there machinations, I had read the books with the (to me) natural belief that they where the Consults manipulations. I find it hard to accept the real gods get involved in the day to day happenings of the people. We know religion is a tool Kellhus uses, and as the Consult are deprived of there skin spies, i saw all this gods business as there new tool of choice to attack the converted three seas and there new religion over the last 20 years. Many of the references can be interpreted in this light, the most obvious being Sorwells farther talking to Storks (Synthese anyone?). We know from the TTT and the face off between the Consult and Kellhus, that there “glamour’s” where enough to fool even he, could they not fool people into believing the gods are speaking to them?. (Although i have to admit, the White Luck warrior has me stumped) I just assumed this while reading the books. and after reading this thread, find it quite odd that i don’t see anyone else who had my take on events. P.s, great think tank guys, nice to find such dedicated fans to chat with about Scotts outstanding work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curethan Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 Welcome.That's totally possible Boric. Interesting too.It just seems athromorphicly natural for there to be actual gods.Your tiny writing makes me squint :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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