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Whataletdown

Completely disappointed, can't go on

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After Martin's so-called "Red Wedding" I just can't read any more of this book series. He has lost a loyal fan and reader and will not be receiving anymore support, financial or otherwise, from me.

Sansa didn't get to take her revenge on Joffrey, as she should have. MAJOR points off for that, Martin. She lost everything to and was abused by him, and this character that Martin LABORIOUSLY created and allowed us to follow not ONLY did not get the chance to kill her nemesis, she did NOTHING but stand there helpless (as she always does, very 1-dimensional and boring character, I have come to realize after this series of events. Seriously, try real hard to think of literally anything this character can do besides sit helplessly while her family is killed and then badmouth them). What's worse, Joffrey didn't die to Stark hands, as would have been the most pleasing to readers. Instead, he's quickly and (in the book's presentation) anti-climatically dispatched by a very minor character who himself is killed shortly after. Martin, you spent THREE BOOKS building up this monster, and instead of rewarding your readers with the revenge you knew we all wanted, you unceremoniously dashed him out of the picture and made way for your latest stupid "intrigue" machinations.

Okay, we get it. You think you're the new god of fantastical politics. You know what? I've read three of these damned books, and the intrigue isn't that gripping. It's mostly a lot of empty fluff chapters with characters like Davos who were invented for NO MORE reason than to space out the Arya and Catelyn chapters. It's not intrigue, it's just asinine mouth diarrhea over fancy tables while everyone talks about who's being married to and killed by whom. Just because you can show us Tyrion talking murder with his father and then hundreds of pages later a gruesome battle occurs, doesn't mean you're AT ALL skilled in this genre. Really just absolutely exhausted with reading pages upon pages of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENING and then innocent people or major characters are killed off in horrific and demeaning murders. It's all just unrewarding rubbish.

So okay, Sansa didn't get to kill Joffrey. Life's unfair then you die. WE GET IT. WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HATE LIFE AND EVERYONE IN IT AND ABOVE ALL WOMEN. Can you let us read the fucking book now? No? Why not? What's that? You have plans for a horrible Red Wedding? Okay, tell us all about it!

It totally makes sense that Robb would stride cheerfully into the sex dungeon of the bloody-mouthed psychopath because he's marrying his uncle off to the guy's family, no matter that he "broke his word" (who cares whether this is true or not, I'm sure that bloody-mouthed psychopath is completely trustworthy and doesn't even remember you betraying him!) and kills his victims without remorse! Okay, I'm totally with you, Martin. I TOTALLY believe that this is something Robb and Catelyn would do. Oh and leave the dog outside, too. His paws are probably dirty.

It TOTALLY makes sense that Catelyn and Robb would pretty much just stand there slackjawed and dim-witted while musicians pull out crossbows. It TOTALLY makes sense than instead of fleeing this EXTREMELY OBVIOUS AMBUSH Catelyn and Robb will just sit there and talk shop with their adversaries.

But all that obviously very sense-making logic aside, why would you build up this lovable mother in Catelyn stark over 3 books just to LITERALLY drive her mad with despair over the murders of all of her children (even though all her kids aren't dead, she went mad for no reason, delicious, tee hee!!), have her kill an innocent person and then get her throat slit by a character so minor we don't even get the name?

So let me get this straight, George Martin.

In your untalented, disgusting, piece of SHIT book series, you are making LOUD proclamations that you have every intention of killing off characters we will come to love, you will NOT allow us the payload from BOOKS' WORTH of buildup, you will NOT let the good guys win, you will NOT let any of the bad guys get what they deserve and you WILL try to redeem as many hateful "bad guys" as you possibly can, only to either kill them off or have them kill other characters we love (What's that? I don't hate Jaime anymore even though he tried to kill Bran? Because why? Because he's a good guy now? Okay, I'm fine with trading revenge I've been wanting for 2 books for a mediocre character who I'm SURE will reward me as a reader).

So WHY THE FUCK would I read any more of a book series full of nothing but let-downs? What is there to stick with? Who is there to follow?

Who's left?

Arya, Bran, Sansa, Rob Snow. Okay, let's just take a look at that.

Daenerys slips on a banana peel and breaks her neck, killing her instantly. Martin spends the next 3 pages describing in detail her mangled body and how she defecated when she died. Oh, and then she gets a dead wolf's head sewn onto her body. Wait no, scratch that. Make it a baby dragon, since she felt really strongly about those things. Oh, and then all her friends and family are brutally murdered, go mad with despair, or kill themselves.

Bran, fresh from shoving his "foot" into Hodor's "boot" (absolutely no homosexual undertones there so it's fine), can't control his power anymore and takes over Arya, making her go mad with despair and kill herself. Then Nymeria's head is sewn onto her corpse. She never sees her mother or family again.

Sansa learns statecraft and becomes a duchess, then goes mad with despair and has Lady's head sewn onto her body (I know Lady's been dead for 2 books, but Robb walked right into the Red Wedding, so obviously logic is not being employed here). Oh, and then for some reason she slips on a banana peel and breaks her neck.

Rob Snow just plain kills himself.

Who's left? Is Bran still alive? Okay, he kills himself too after the whole mad with despair and banana peel thing.

Then finally in the last few pages of book 7, all that's left of the Starks is little Rick, age 18 months and still squealing for his mommy (who's dead twice over, hurrah!). He's being brutally tortured by the Lannisters, most of his skin flayed off and his eyes poked out and all his fingernails cut in half on the finger. He's still too young to speak, but being tortured anyway because that's how "brave" this author is. It is then revealed that one of his family members is still alive---

and the 7th book ends there, on a huge cliffhanger, none of us sure whether the Stark family still lives.

I'm George Martin, what a talented and acclaimed and above all BRAVE author I am for killing off all my characters and making you follow along for 7 expensive books (these royalties put my fat children through private school, you slovenly pigs!) just to get absolutely no satisfaction at all for all the negative emotions I made you feel! Want to know how I did it?? I took an ex-lax and an imodium simultaneously and let them fight it out in there, then I took a BIG OL SHIT and SPOONFED IT TO YOU over 100 dollars' worth of sequels so I could laugh at how frustrated you all must be! Long live me, George Martin, and my immortal work, How I Got You Noobs To Eat My Shit For 10 Years!

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I have not been THIS disappointed in an author in many, many years. I have come to feel genuine hatred for this book series, I hope George Martin intended that- and that many other readers pick up on the complete and utter waste of time this not-even-literature will turn out to be. Even SHOULD Catelyn Stark get to see her family again, it will never be enough. This is an author that cannot follow through on his promises and refuses to deliver the satisfaction we want. Fuck him and ASOIAF, I'm putting these books down forever and not selling them secondhand, because this book series is a curse I wouldn't wish on my enemies let alone strangers dumb enough to pick up a copy of Storm in some crappy bookstore. Maybe I'll burn the damned things and then go kill myself in hopes of driving my mother mad with despair.

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Sansa didnt get to take revenge because she is a wimp with a warped fairytale world view. We got revenge, we got to read about him choking to death while his devil mother stands by and watches. And Davos is a very interesting character, his parts are way better than Catelyns, and I would guess that they are there so we know what is happening with Stannis. Why do you think he hates women? Sansa is no more whiny and helpless than Tommen or Podrick Payne or any number of guys. Society, like ours, just favors males. Arya and Brienne are tough and fight. Walder Frey was also not shown in any way before the wedding to be a psychopath, he just had had a lot of wives, but he was 92, and most people dont seem to live out of their 40s or 50s. Robb has no chance of winning the war unless he has the Freys on his side, so he pretty much has no choice. Their demands arent unreasonable, and the wedding is so shocking to many readers, I dont get how you call it an extremely obvious ambush. It wasnt until they were actually seated. Bad guys get what they deserve too, Tywin died, the Tickler and other people on Aryas list did too, and Gregor Clegane seems to be dying. Joffrey died. That is a lot of bad people who have died. All the good characters that died did in completely realistic and reasonable ways. The people left are the ones that really matter. Jon, who practically commands the wall, to stop the Others, who seem like the real threat. Arya, who is just completely awesome. Tyrion, who is also awesome and so smart. The people that died were almost worthless. Ned was only in one book, and he was too full of honor and goodness to survive in the harsh world. Cat was just useless, she started a war, kidnapped Tyrion, let Jamie go, and then sat in Riverrun doing nothing. Robb we didnt even see much of, he was off fighting his battles, and being an idiot and marrying Jeyne. There are still 4 books left for you to feel good emotions, not everythings going to be happy. I get satisfaction from reading the books, lots of other people do to. He doesnt not give us the satisfaction we want, its just in different forms than normal.

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Wow thats a rant and a half! I too was upset at Catelyns death, especially, as a Mum, the thought she would never know her children were still alive. That said I would not want a book full of happy endings and revenge on the bad guys, too neat. I don't understand why you feel Sansa "should" have had revenge or why you feel she should act as anything but a powerless 13 year old child in a court of people waiting for her to slip up. I think Mr Martin has capture her naivety perfectly, in her waiting for her Prince to rescue her and romanticising her situation. Neither do I feel Mr Martin "hates" his female characters. I think he has created some strong, powerful and successful females, I love Brienne and Ygritte. It would be totally unrealisitic to only allow the men to perish or the baddies to come to a sticky end.

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'He doesn't give us the satisfaction we want?' Martin shouldn't write his books for the fans, just like bands shouldn't make their music for the fans, because that would be bullshit. They should do it because they think their way is best. If GMM has awakened you from fairyland Hollywood to finally create a tale that isn't extremely predictable where you know everyone can die, as opposed to almost every other story out there, well too bad then. Oh and there's some pretty good scenes still out there past where you've read if you want to see evil characters suffer and satiate any sadistic urges you might have. I'm content if they just die mostly. I thought Joffry's death quite because he died like a rat and without honour.

A part of writing a saga GMM understands is it can't always be about the same characters. Therefore, you could write them out, but sometimes people who are too important to be off-screen all the time will die.

I will part with you by sharing a wisdom: You don't glorify your enemy's deaths, you kill them and go on with your life.

Go Martin!

(All this said, I got a bit depressed when I started reading the last book as well, but I read on like a man and have no regrets!)

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After Martin's so-called "Red Wedding" I just can't read any more of this book series. He has lost a loyal fan and reader and will not be receiving anymore support, financial or otherwise, from me.

Sounds like you need a good talking to from Petyr to remind you that 'life isn't a song' and therefore all books need not be as sugar coated as you'd like them to be.

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Funny thing about these books, the people you think are SO incredibly important and no one can ever take their places... well, you move on because there is so much more to the over all story, and quite honestly, people offering more to root for. You get attached because they are what you have anchoring you in at the start. But they are kind of just a small part, and there is so much more to envelop you in the rest of it. I don't know... I just think, you've made this much of an investment, it's kind of silly to stop now.

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I think this whole rant was birthed from the utter shock and disappointment felt by Commoner over the totally unexpected Red Wedding. I too shouted "NO!" when I read it, but I think it's fantastic that, not only did I not see it coming, but I later appreciated how much better and addicting these stories became because of it. The fifth book, "A Dance With Dragons" is my favorite so far, because it delves more into the stories of two of my favorite characters, Jon and Daenerys.

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This whole rant is a clear troll, Commoner.

But if it was genuine, the childish RAGE coming from the post could power my house for a year.

Quite funny, all in all. Whataletdown probably misjudged how much boarders cared about someone dropping the series, though.

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Whataletdown I strongly suggest that you reconsider, finish reading the book. I can relate to your frustrations, though mine are not as strong as yours, with Sansa not being able to kill Joff herself, or Robb and Catelyn dying, or any other good character you came to love dying. But think about it, would the books be better had those characters not died? Probably not because then the books wouldn't be able to take the turns they have, GRRM knows where he is going with these characters and some of them HAVE to die in order for there to be any progression with other characters. You have to keep in mind the time period of the book series it much like the medieval era, how many good innocent people died in those times? A shit ton. Not everything is candy, bunnies, and rainbows.

I can see why you were irritated with Sansa not killing Joffery but how could she accomplish that? The girl sees the world as a fairytale, even though she's seen and experienced sickening things she still thinks that some knight in shinning armor will rescue her and take her away to a forest where birds will sing her name. She is just a weak minded child who doesn't even know what the hell is going on or who she even is as a person. Someone with that kind of mentality couldn't even kill a fly, let alone Joffery! But hell at least you got to see the little asshole choke and die an unbearable death and that bitch Cercei witnessed her poor unholy son take his last breath.

As with Robb and Catelyn, it's good that you know the reasoning for them going to the Frey's to marry off his uncle to make amends for Robb's mistake of marrying Jeyne, but also keep in mind that the Frey's were long time friends or allies of the Starks, and have been for years, so I don't quite understand how you think it was an obvious ambush. Yes, I'll agree there was an errie rank mystery in the air that didn't quite settle with me but in no way did I see the Frey's attacking the way that they did. And besides .....

Catelyn Isn't dead...she was at one point but isn't anymore.. GMMR has an odd twist to her character

And you'll also find out it wasn't completely at the hands, or minds really, of the Frey's they did have extra help.

There are other characters that you love now and will come to love even more like Jon Snow, Arya, Bran, Brienne, Dany (a lot of people think she's boring but I actually am fond of her), Tyrion,etc. These characters are key players in the books, the one's that died are small parts compared to what these ones deal with.

There are more exciting times waiting ahead for you in the this book and the ones after, so I hope you reconsider and finish this book series. Everything happens for a reason in this series, even people dying.

I ask that before you become a total quitter at least finish reading this book and the epilogue, then come to your judgements of how shitty the books are. I happen to think that the books are written quite wonderfully and I must say they are pretty extraoridinary, GRRM has done a stunning job with writting.

OR You can just stick to reading your Twilight Books since everything in there is so sweet and shiney... where the good guys don't die, they get the girl..

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@Whataletdown

This is by far the fumiest thing i have ever read during my time here at Westeros :lmao:. First of all, if you actually took the time to not only finish this book, but read AFFC and ADWD you would see a progression of Sansa's character, beyond what you seem to be whining about. Also you said a minor Character killed Joffrey, last time i checked Littlefinger was anything but minor.

Now had you taken the time to finish not only ASoS, but actually read AFFC which is very Sansa heavy. Then this rant of yours would have carried more weight. You complain because the things didn't happen the way you wanted them to, but all these things you are complaining about, are part of a much larger political story, that seems to have gone over your head. You would have had a better understanding of all this, had you read the rest of the series.

In the future don't stop mid paragraph of something your reading and decide that you have a full understanding of the material. I urge you to complete the series, then come back with your opinions.

Also i recommend Prozac!!!!!

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as an obvious troll post it wasn't bad...certainly not going to win the hugo or anything. however, i did actually chuckle a couple of times.

keep up the hard work and you may someday get somewhere kid.

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After Martin's so-called "Red Wedding" I just can't read any more of this book series. He has lost a loyal fan and reader and will not be receiving anymore support, financial or otherwise, from me.

I'm George Martin, what a talented and acclaimed and above all BRAVE author I am for killing off all my characters and making you follow along for 7 expensive books (these royalties put my fat children through private school, you slovenly pigs!) just to get absolutely no satisfaction at all for all the negative emotions I made you feel! Want to know how I did it?? I took an ex-lax and an imodium simultaneously and let them fight it out in there, then I took a BIG OL SHIT and SPOONFED IT TO YOU over 100 dollars' worth of sequels so I could laugh at how frustrated you all must be! Long live me, George Martin, and my immortal work, How I Got You Noobs To Eat My Shit For 10 Years!

This is exactly why I love GRRM... He always manages to break the romantics and idealists like twigs with generous doses of reality. In ASoS, Sansa is a little girl with the mentality of an abused puppy. She's not about to magically transform into Wonder Woman and take revenge on all of her family's enemies. Robb was a young, honorable fool who was done in by a wise, dishonorable old man (happens all the time). Etc.., etc.., etc.. When I want a happy ending, I watch porn. When I want a window into a brutal medieval world, I read GRRM. There's plenty of history, psychology, and sociology at play in ASOIAF, but not many superheroes coming to the save the day. It's much like planet Earth in that respect. Some people hate realism in fiction, but I can't stand blind idealism in reality. Our world doesn't work like that, and it would seem cheap and manufactured if Westeros did.

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May I suggest a few deep breaths and a cup of tea? Yes these books are infuriating, (I was practically in full rage mode reading that poor Sansa had to marry Tyrion and then that Ice had been melted down) but that is the beauty of the story, it is not a happily ever after. It is based on a medieval world where this sort of stuff happened (okay the Wall, the Other and the Dragons maybe not, but violence and cruelty: Yes).

If you don't want to read the series anymore, may I suggest Ken Follett's "Pillar of the Earth". Same sort of setting and also quite realistic in terms of bloodyhellness.

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This is the funniest reaction to the Red Wedding that I've ever read, and one of the funniest posts that I've seen on the board. Awesome! :lmao:

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