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Whataletdown

Completely disappointed, can't go on

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Sounds like someone is just bitter that their favorite characters died.

where's there balance of justice and injustice in this story?

Where's the balance of justice and injustice in life?

What I like about this series more than anything is the realism, by which I mean the tragedy, disappointment, and injustice is, in my world view, comparable to the amount of tragedy, disappointment, and injustice we experience as human beings. To quote Maester Aemon, sometimes there are no happy endings. I think it takes a lot of courage and talent for an author to take on a tragedy on the scale of A Song of Ice and Fire, more so even to allow this incredible story and the incredible world it takes place in to run it's natural course, abandoning concerns for appeasing the readers or ensuring satisfaction in the typical hero-villain-resolution formula. This story is its own, and we are merely the witnesses. I think you guys just need to get over yourselves, take it for what it is, and stop expecting it to be something it's not... OR, just stop reading and don't expect every book in the world to be tailored specifically to your personal tastes. It's OK to dislike a book or a series, but it's ridiculous to take personal offense when it's not exactly what you want or expected.

Maybe I'm too much of a fangirl, but I think the series is exactly how it should be.

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It was bitter that Catlyn died thinking all her children were dead, but it seemed much more realistic that Walder Frey took his revenge. I loved the way the story built with the characters being surprised at how few insults Frey made them suffer, and then the dawning realisation of what was planned. It is a superb twist that led to me hoping Tyrion would rise up for Sansa and against his family, and that Sansa would stop being such a wimp and see the good in Tyrion. Where I am now in the book, that hope looks lost as another twist of fate takes the story in a new exciting direction!

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It was bitter that Catlyn died thinking all her children were dead, but it seemed much more realistic that Walder Frey took his revenge. I loved the way the story built with the characters being surprised at how few insults Frey made them suffer, and then the dawning realisation of what was planned. It is a superb twist that led to me hoping Tyrion would rise up for Sansa and against his family, and that Sansa would stop being such a wimp and see the good in Tyrion. Where I am now in the book, that hope looks lost as another twist of fate takes the story in a new exciting direction!

I feel the exact same way and thought basically the exact same thing about Tyrion and Sansa. I really thought Tyrion had a chance at winning her favor if he played the cards right, thought I'm not sure if Sansa herself would have ultimately fulfilled a man of Tyrion's complexity, at least at that particular stage in her development as a character...

Once they arrive at the Freys', a sense of forboding is immediately created in the book. You just know something isn't right, something has to run afoul. And it honestly builds on a suspicion that subtly arises from the moment we learn of their journey to the wedding in the first place. I thought it was very well done, even if it was a desperate tragedy.

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worst part of the red wedding was the dire wolf dying.wish beric would have kissed grey wolf . these are great books that don't follow the normal formula..they aren't meant to be an after school movie. I'm sure we all have parts we'd like to manipulate some..but it's not our world, we just get a visitors pass

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OP is funny

you mad bro?

anyways, RW was one of the shining moments of the series. i remember my reaction so well (there should be a thread about "what was your RW reaction?") I was with my friends, about to go out on to the beach and I start freaking out. "OMG OMG WUT?NO! IT CANT BE" and everyone was confused. i put the book down took some breaths and re read it, just to be sure. HOLY SHIT. everyone asked me what was happening (having not read the books), and i just recapped for them, whether or not it made sense. there were a lot of "OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED"

s in there. so intense, truly a moment that i wont forget...which is weird. then i kept replaying it over and over again on the beach, wandering around in a daze

but i just thought it was awesome (not the fact that they died). i dont think i ever experienced such a thing while reading a book...all the hints, HOW COULD THEY (ME EVEN!) NOT SEE IT COMING.

i hate Robb and feel neutral about cat, so idc about them

...the biggest loss here was

greywind. RIP buddy, you were the best direwolf.

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OP is funny

you mad bro?

anyways, RW was one of the shining moments of the series. i remember my reaction so well (there should be a thread about "what was your RW reaction?") I was with my friends, about to go out on to the beach and I start freaking out. "OMG OMG WUT?NO! IT CANT BE" and everyone was confused. i put the book down took some breaths and re read it, just to be sure. HOLY SHIT. everyone asked me what was happening (having not read the books), and i just recapped for them, whether or not it made sense. there were a lot of "OH MY GOD I CANT BELIEVE THAT JUST HAPPENED"

s in there. so intense, truly a moment that i wont forget...which is weird. then i kept replaying it over and over again on the beach, wandering around in a daze

but i just thought it was awesome (not the fact that they died). i dont think i ever experienced such a thing while reading a book...all the hints, HOW COULD THEY (ME EVEN!) NOT SEE IT COMING.

i hate Robb and feel neutral about cat, so idc about them

...the biggest loss here was

greywind. RIP buddy, you were the best direwolf.

I reacted the same way! I immediately had to explain it to anyone who would listen!

Re: Grey Wind, it is an interesting part of the plot that he sensed something wrong straight away, this surely strengthens the idea of a connection between the Stark children and their wolves, and yet where I am in the book, Arya is still without Nymeria, John is without Ghost and the rest are dead apart from Summer! It's another interesting little complexity I can't wait to see played out!

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So WHY THE FUCK would I read any more of a book series full of nothing but let-downs? What is there to stick with? Who is there to follow?

Mayhaps you might like to read the story of William the Conquerer formerly known as William the Bastard who killed the brave English King Herold and then the Normans spent the next 200 years oppressing the English and killing off all their Nobles.

Then there's also the story of Joan of Arc - she leads the French Army to victory, crowns the King, has a tremendous amount of visions, and miraculous happenings, but dies at the stake, burnt alive for being a witch.

GRRM has always said he wanted his books to closely resemble Medieval History.

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After Martin's so-called "Red Wedding" I just can't read any more of this book series. He has lost a loyal fan and reader and will not be receiving anymore support, financial or otherwise, from me.

Sansa didn't get to take her revenge on Joffrey, as she should have. MAJOR points off for that, Martin. She lost everything to and was abused by him, and this character that Martin LABORIOUSLY created and allowed us to follow not ONLY did not get the chance to kill her nemesis, she did NOTHING but stand there helpless (as she always does, very 1-dimensional and boring character, I have come to realize after this series of events. Seriously, try real hard to think of literally anything this character can do besides sit helplessly while her family is killed and then badmouth them). What's worse, Joffrey didn't die to Stark hands, as would have been the most pleasing to readers. Instead, he's quickly and (in the book's presentation) anti-climatically dispatched by a very minor character who himself is killed shortly after. Martin, you spent THREE BOOKS building up this monster, and instead of rewarding your readers with the revenge you knew we all wanted, you unceremoniously dashed him out of the picture and made way for your latest stupid "intrigue" machinations.

Okay, we get it. You think you're the new god of fantastical politics. You know what? I've read three of these damned books, and the intrigue isn't that gripping. It's mostly a lot of empty fluff chapters with characters like Davos who were invented for NO MORE reason than to space out the Arya and Catelyn chapters. It's not intrigue, it's just asinine mouth diarrhea over fancy tables while everyone talks about who's being married to and killed by whom. Just because you can show us Tyrion talking murder with his father and then hundreds of pages later a gruesome battle occurs, doesn't mean you're AT ALL skilled in this genre. Really just absolutely exhausted with reading pages upon pages of ABSOLUTELY NOTHING HAPPENING and then innocent people or major characters are killed off in horrific and demeaning murders. It's all just unrewarding rubbish.

So okay, Sansa didn't get to kill Joffrey. Life's unfair then you die. WE GET IT. WE UNDERSTAND THAT YOU HATE LIFE AND EVERYONE IN IT AND ABOVE ALL WOMEN. Can you let us read the fucking book now? No? Why not? What's that? You have plans for a horrible Red Wedding? Okay, tell us all about it!

It totally makes sense that Robb would stride cheerfully into the sex dungeon of the bloody-mouthed psychopath because he's marrying his uncle off to the guy's family, no matter that he "broke his word" (who cares whether this is true or not, I'm sure that bloody-mouthed psychopath is completely trustworthy and doesn't even remember you betraying him!) and kills his victims without remorse! Okay, I'm totally with you, Martin. I TOTALLY believe that this is something Robb and Catelyn would do. Oh and leave the dog outside, too. His paws are probably dirty.

It TOTALLY makes sense that Catelyn and Robb would pretty much just stand there slackjawed and dim-witted while musicians pull out crossbows. It TOTALLY makes sense than instead of fleeing this EXTREMELY OBVIOUS AMBUSH Catelyn and Robb will just sit there and talk shop with their adversaries.

But all that obviously very sense-making logic aside, why would you build up this lovable mother in Catelyn stark over 3 books just to LITERALLY drive her mad with despair over the murders of all of her children (even though all her kids aren't dead, she went mad for no reason, delicious, tee hee!!), have her kill an innocent person and then get her throat slit by a character so minor we don't even get the name?

So let me get this straight, George Martin.

In your untalented, disgusting, piece of SHIT book series, you are making LOUD proclamations that you have every intention of killing off characters we will come to love, you will NOT allow us the payload from BOOKS' WORTH of buildup, you will NOT let the good guys win, you will NOT let any of the bad guys get what they deserve and you WILL try to redeem as many hateful "bad guys" as you possibly can, only to either kill them off or have them kill other characters we love (What's that? I don't hate Jaime anymore even though he tried to kill Bran? Because why? Because he's a good guy now? Okay, I'm fine with trading revenge I've been wanting for 2 books for a mediocre character who I'm SURE will reward me as a reader).

So WHY THE FUCK would I read any more of a book series full of nothing but let-downs? What is there to stick with? Who is there to follow?

Who's left?

Arya, Bran, Sansa, Rob Snow. Okay, let's just take a look at that.

Daenerys slips on a banana peel and breaks her neck, killing her instantly. Martin spends the next 3 pages describing in detail her mangled body and how she defecated when she died. Oh, and then she gets a dead wolf's head sewn onto her body. Wait no, scratch that. Make it a baby dragon, since she felt really strongly about those things. Oh, and then all her friends and family are brutally murdered, go mad with despair, or kill themselves.

Bran, fresh from shoving his "foot" into Hodor's "boot" (absolutely no homosexual undertones there so it's fine), can't control his power anymore and takes over Arya, making her go mad with despair and kill herself. Then Nymeria's head is sewn onto her corpse. She never sees her mother or family again.

Sansa learns statecraft and becomes a duchess, then goes mad with despair and has Lady's head sewn onto her body (I know Lady's been dead for 2 books, but Robb walked right into the Red Wedding, so obviously logic is not being employed here). Oh, and then for some reason she slips on a banana peel and breaks her neck.

Rob Snow just plain kills himself.

Who's left? Is Bran still alive? Okay, he kills himself too after the whole mad with despair and banana peel thing.

Then finally in the last few pages of book 7, all that's left of the Starks is little Rick, age 18 months and still squealing for his mommy (who's dead twice over, hurrah!). He's being brutally tortured by the Lannisters, most of his skin flayed off and his eyes poked out and all his fingernails cut in half on the finger. He's still too young to speak, but being tortured anyway because that's how "brave" this author is. It is then revealed that one of his family members is still alive---

and the 7th book ends there, on a huge cliffhanger, none of us sure whether the Stark family still lives.

I'm George Martin, what a talented and acclaimed and above all BRAVE author I am for killing off all my characters and making you follow along for 7 expensive books (these royalties put my fat children through private school, you slovenly pigs!) just to get absolutely no satisfaction at all for all the negative emotions I made you feel! Want to know how I did it?? I took an ex-lax and an imodium simultaneously and let them fight it out in there, then I took a BIG OL SHIT and SPOONFED IT TO YOU over 100 dollars' worth of sequels so I could laugh at how frustrated you all must be! Long live me, George Martin, and my immortal work, How I Got You Noobs To Eat My Shit For 10 Years!

:lmao:

This was by far the best post I have read! It was so funny I had to give it a "like" tick! I haven't laughed so hard in a while. Absolutely fabulous!

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Really? Why do pple get so upset over Red Wedding? Robb Stark and his mom got killed and his army decimated. Its not as if a major POV character got killed. Besides in the case of Catelyn, her demise seems to be an marked improvement on her temperament. :D

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Really? Why do pple get so upset over Red Wedding? Robb Stark and his mom got killed and his army decimated. Its not as if a major POV character got killed. Besides in the case of Catelyn, her demise seems to be an marked improvement on her temperament. :D

I edited out my reaction, since I don't want to come off as crazy :lol:

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Really? Why do pple get so upset over Red Wedding? Robb Stark and his mom got killed and his army decimated. Its not as if a major POV character got killed. Besides in the case of Catelyn, her demise seems to be an marked improvement on her temperament. :D

I think a lot of readers get really invested in the Starks. I know I am. I cried reading The Red Wedding myself mostly because of the remaining Stark children losing their elder brother and, in particular, their mother after having already weathered through so many tragedies and set-backs. Arya especially - my heart was just breaking for her, knowing she helpless outside just a short jog away from the family she had so desperately fought to be re-united with. I was also saddened by Robb's demise and knowing he would never be the ultimate victor who would eventually rule Westeros because it's the side I'd been rooting for all along to begin with, but mostly it was terrible and incredibly sad because of Arya and everything she's lost.

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That was awesome!.....and disturbing.

And to think, I thought my wife overreacted to the RW just a wee bit when she flung her book across the room and stated for all the house to hear that GRRM was a 'motherfucker."

:D

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While I found the RW really tough to take, I was bereft for a bit, it really needed to happen. The Freys were dubious at best, Bolton is evil and Lannisters are liars. It is known as the Dothraki say. You should always know the nature of your foes and allies. Like King Robert and Ned, Robb was a great warrior but a freaking lousy politician.

Cat kind of irked me with her rash decision making and naïveté. These traits ended up costing the lives of innocents. Not just her own family. Plus her nastiness to Jon was just uncalled for. They weren't even betrothed at the time he was conceived. I felt sad for her surviving children more than for her. But still the way of her death was really tragic.

In this way I totally understood the point of the RW. Plus it's war and war is unjust and cruel in it's nature. It just depends on your POV.

I get the need for a good vent. I get it. But the fact that these books inspire such strong emotion speaks to

the talent of the writer. I plan to keep going. Though I won't be able to feel quite so confident that my favorites will live to the end, it makes storylines much more exciting.

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I think a lot of readers get really invested in the Starks. I know I am. I cried reading The Red Wedding myself mostly because of the remaining Stark children losing their elder brother and, in particular, their mother after having already weathered through so many tragedies and set-backs. Arya especially - my heart was just breaking for her, knowing she helpless outside just a short jog away from the family she had so desperately fought to be re-united with. I was also saddened by Robb's demise and knowing he would never be the ultimate victor who would eventually rule Westeros because it's the side I'd been rooting for all along to begin with, but mostly it was terrible and incredibly sad because of Arya and everything she's lost.

I also got upset at the RW - but not to the extent of throwing a book across the table.

GRRM mentioned in a recent interview that good smart people don't necessarily make good kings. And that was the reason why he chose to bump off Robb. He used the analogy of Jimmy Carter and said that he was obviously the smarter President but he didn't necessarily make the wisest decisions or was popular for making decisions which was effective - Carter was a nuke submarine commander.

Robb's arc was essentially finished for GRRM - he proved his worth as a military boy commander. He defeated the enemy in battle - captured Jamie Lannister. And that was that.

I found Robb's death similar to that of King Duncan in Shakespeare's Macbeth which I thought was poetic.

Of course I'd like to have seen Robb's armies marshall up with the Dany's unsullied to fight off the Lannister. But that would have been ... indulgent.

***

To the OP, you forget that GRRM has a distaste about the romantic story - the kind that 12 year old Sansa likes - where the brave handsome hero saves the girl every time.

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I was totally, totally devastated by The Red Wedding. Really, you're going to kill the characters you set us up most to care about... again? I was straight up angry.

In fact, I can't find it in myself to care about the House Stark at all anymore.

I'm sooooooooo constantly disappointed with the Starks. Let's face it, they're more depressing than a Counting Crows concert. All the way back to Eddard Stark himself. Ned, more fool than patchface, traded the lives and suffering of his entire family for some do-gooder, self-righteous, pseudo honor.

So, from here on out, I'm skipping all chapters that are from Stark POV's. Except Jon Snow, he's only half Stark, so I'm skipping every other page on his chapters.

I'll wait out the rest of it. I still have high hopes for Denearys, after the way she stole an army of Unsullied. She's like a Honeybadger, she takes what she wants. I like that. I hope she treads under her heels every other major character in the book. I hope only to read of characters being burned by dragons, dismembered by dragons, or heads getting mounted on spikes by The Unsullied.

P.S. If I ever meet GRRM, I'm going to punch him in the face and tell him that that makes our friendship "more realistic"

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So, from here on out, I'm skipping all chapters that are from Stark POV's. Except Jon Snow, he's only half Stark, so I'm skipping every other page on his chapters.

LOL, sounds like a fun reading experience

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This thread hasn't been locked yet :lmao: , some how someone keeps bringing it back to life.

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