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That wasn't Rolph, that was

Raynald Westerling, and we don't know if he's dead; though several crossbow bolts to the chest usually does that sort of trick. Rolph was certainly involved in the plot (Spicer's part) from the beginning.

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That wasn't Rolph, that was

Raynald Westerling, and we don't know if he's dead; though several crossbow bolts to the chest usually does that sort of trick. Rolph was certainly involved in the plot (Spicer's part) from the beginning.

which leads me to believe an interesting thing:

Robb wargs into Grey Wind at the end. Grey Wind is chained, however, and cannot get away, Robb, still in Grey Wind, then wargs into Raynald Westerling, who has previously surrendered. Raynald has a sudden change of heart and frees Grey Wind and is then shot with arrows, he staggers and falls into the river, but his body is never recovered and identified. I mean, why would Raynald change his mind so quickly? He was going to survive, and besides, Grey Wind hated him, meaning he was probably hostile towards Robb in actuality. It makes no sense for him to free the wolf. It also could be that Robb knew that the Westerlings were weak-willed and easily warged, which is another reason that he left Raynald outside to guard Grey Wind.

my contention is that Robb has permanently warged into Raynald.

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Do you mean that Robb is alive in Raynald's body? Is that how warging really works? I always thought more of a chance of Robb warged into Grey Wind, assuming the direwolf is not really dead (could be...we have no first hand explanation about how he is killed, just somebody heard that somebody said that the wolf was arrowed and died...)

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which leads me to believe an interesting thing:

Robb wargs into Grey Wind at the end. Grey Wind is chained, however, and cannot get away, Robb, still in Grey Wind, then wargs into Raynald Westerling, who has previously surrendered. Raynald has a sudden change of heart and frees Grey Wind and is then shot with arrows, he staggers and falls into the river, but his body is never recovered and identified. I mean, why would Raynald change his mind so quickly? He was going to survive, and besides, Grey Wind hated him, meaning he was probably hostile towards Robb in actuality. It makes no sense for him to free the wolf.

That was Rolph Spicer, not Raynald Westerling. As a result, it does make a sort of sense that Raynald would free Grey Wind if he noticed that suddenly, the Frey aren't subduing, but rather trying to kill Grey Wind and if he wasn't openly hostile to Robb (or hostile at all, for that matter).

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Do you mean that Robb is alive in Raynald's body? Is that how warging really works? I always thought more of a chance of Robb warged into Grey Wind, assuming the direwolf is not really dead (could be...we have no first hand explanation about how he is killed, just somebody heard that somebody said that the wolf was arrowed and died...)

do not read if you haven't read the adwd prologue.

yes, that's how warging works, for the most part. once your original body dies and you go into another human body, you're warged permanently, i believe. that was the point of the adwd prologue.

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That was Rolph Spicer, not Raynald Westerling. As a result, it does make a sort of sense that Raynald would free Grey Wind if he noticed that suddenly, the Frey aren't subduing, but rather trying to kill Grey Wind and if he wasn't openly hostile to Robb (or hostile at all, for that matter).

Grey Wind was already subdued, though. he had to have known what they meant to do. it's very possible he had a natural change of heart and didn't want the king's wolf harmed, but for some reason there's a certain amount of care that went into illustrating the fate of Raynald at the red wedding. why even keep him alive? and, make no mistake, there's no way that he's not alive, if he were dead, we'd have seen it.

don't read unless you've read adwd

i'm not a huge fan of bringing back sentimental characters nor of Robb Stark in general. But it's very possible he warged into the wolf and then into Raynald. there seems to be a very distinct parallel between the assumed demises of both Jon and Robb.

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Do you mean that Robb is alive in Raynald's body? Is that how warging really works? I always thought more of a chance of Robb warged into Grey Wind, assuming the direwolf is not really dead (could be...we have no first hand explanation about how he is killed, just somebody heard that somebody said that the wolf was arrowed and died...)

I hope not. That sounds too convoluted to be plausible imho - more like a plot for Heroes Season Two.

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So warging allows you to skinchange as many times as you need/want? That’s pretty close to some kind of immortality... and it opens so many possibilities (for instance, Ghost could be some kind of ancestor warged...or even Ned...or...). And it means they can leap from an animal into another human being... I always thought they had to go back into their original body before warging again, and that’s why I see more Robb permanently warging Grey Wind (and somehow escaping from death) than living into Raynald’s body.

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I thought so. It's clear that Robb had warging abilities: he talks about the wolf's bloodlust (obviously he has felt it the same way his brothers do), and I think he is into Grey Wind during battles for the most of the time.

But human warging, I think he can't do it (maybe all the Stark children could if they had time and proper training). So the last chance we can see Robb back is Grey Wind still alive. As I posted elsewhere, could be nice, but yes, too convoluted. And not a good way to recover from the Red Wedding emotional havoc.

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Robb wasn't a powerful warg like

Varamyr though. And even he had trouble warging into a person and stealing their body - it didn't work in the end.

So yeah, I think it's a pretty wild theory.

adwd spoilers

it didn't work because the woman saw it coming and knew who and what varamyr was. even so, he was able to warg into the wolf at the end and survive.

and maybe the stark children are far more powerful than varamyr but just never had a teacher like he had. GRRM kind of goes out of his way to talk about varamyr's mentor. and both robb and jon call out their wolves' names in the end, is that not significant?

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  • 11 months later...

adwd spoilers

it didn't work because the woman saw it coming and knew who and what varamyr was. even so, he was able to warg into the wolf at the end and survive.

and maybe the stark children are far more powerful than varamyr but just never had a teacher like he had. GRRM kind of goes out of his way to talk about varamyr's mentor. and both robb and jon call out their wolves' names in the end, is that not significant?

Storm so don't need to post spoiler tags right?

Anyway Bran wargs Hodor and he doesn't like it, Hodor's a halfwit who couldn't have seen it coming, and he still resists. Plus Bran knows what he is, and is the most powerfull warg of the Stark kids. Robb being able to go into Raynald doesn't work on two fronts, once you're original body has died, you can't warg at all anymore, you can't jump from animal to another host. And then the previously mentioned Raynald being able to resist.

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  • 1 month later...

which leads me to believe an interesting thing:

Robb wargs into Grey Wind at the end. Grey Wind is chained, however, and cannot get away, Robb, still in Grey Wind, then wargs into Raynald Westerling, who has previously surrendered. Raynald has a sudden change of heart and frees Grey Wind and is then shot with arrows, he staggers and falls into the river, but his body is never recovered and identified. I mean, why would Raynald change his mind so quickly? He was going to survive, and besides, Grey Wind hated him, meaning he was probably hostile towards Robb in actuality. It makes no sense for him to free the wolf. It also could be that Robb knew that the Westerlings were weak-willed and easily warged, which is another reason that he left Raynald outside to guard Grey Wind.

my contention is that Robb has permanently warged into Raynald.

Bran is the only Stark who has shown that ability.

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