Occupy Wall Street

[Inigima]

mor2, you have a bad case of "I did it, why can't everyone else" disease. I'm glad shit worked out for you, I really am. But that doesn't mean everyone else's circumstances will allow it.

I'm hearing a rumor about NYPD arresting Citibank account holders trying to close their accounts. That sounds fishy to me -- but it would be very disturbing if true. Can anyone confirm or definitively refute?

[felice]

The Chinese and others would take this to the WTO and even if we can somehow beat them there, if they're sufficiently pissed off, they can start selling off our debt (remember, we owe them a lot of money).

That amount of borrowing was kind of stupid. But isn't it just going to get worse if they carry on the way they are? As I understand it, international debt is effectively the same thing as trade imbalance, and if they don't start producing more stuff locally instead of importing it, the long term outlook is very bleak indeed...

They're sending money back home which is not much in the US, but quite a bit where they come from. If this money is then used to buy things and the latter could somehow be teleported to the US, then yes, they would be worth confiscating.

I assume we're talking property here, and if it had been in the US all along, they wouldn't have been able to afford it anyway. "If it could be teleported" is equivalent to saying "if they won the lottery". Their earnings from working in the US are not sufficient to pay for assets worth confiscating and sending money home doesn't magically change that.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

mor2, you have a bad case of "I did it, why can't everyone else" disease. I'm glad shit worked out for you, I really am. But that doesn't mean everyone else's circumstances will allow it.

I'm hearing a rumor about NYPD arresting Citibank account holders trying to close their accounts. That sounds fishy to me -- but it would be very disturbing if true. Can anyone confirm or definitively refute?

I tried to google it. One story popped up, but when I clicked on it, the story was gone. Don't know what that means.

(I used to suffer from the "I did it" symdrome, but one day I found myself out of work due to no fault of my own--kind of eye opening experience)

[Guest Raidne]

I think a lot of the protesters think they have too much time on their hands too, which is why they want jobs.

Other than that, I don't care who grew up poor and who didn't. WTF does that have to do with having a house that your all of a sudden upside down on, losing your job, or graduating with student loans and no job prospects?

[KAH]

They're supposed to be high enough to allow goods produced locally with decent wages and conditions to be able to compete fairly. It would lead to a reduction in imports, but wouldn't eliminate them entirely.

That sounds either quite disingenuous or quite naïve. The tariffs are imposed in order to protect the foreign workers from exploitation - yet, the only way to protect said foreign workers from exploitation (as portrayed as working for companies offering lousy wages) is to keep the tariffs high enough to eliminate imports entirely.

Your scenario would allow a fair deal of foreign workers to be exploited still. Are those workers to be compensated for their exploitation through foreign aid generated from these tariffs? And if that is the plan, how about all those foreign workers who are denied access to productive capital because of your tariffs? What kind of decent wages do you think those can hope for?

[Ran]

Ah, I was shaking my head at this story when someone tweeted it a few minutes ago: http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/15/dont-close-your-citibank-account-today-theyre-arresting-people/

[felice]

That sounds either quite disingenuous or quite naïve. The tariffs are imposed in order to protect the foreign workers from exploitation

No, it's to protect local workers from downward pressure on wages & conditions and unemployment due to competition from more exploited foreign workers.

Are those workers to be compensated for their exploitation through foreign aid generated from these tariffs? And if that is the plan, how about all those foreign workers who are denied access to productive capital because of your tariffs? What kind of decent wages do you think those can hope for?

I don't think paying foreign workers cents an hour to make luxury goods for Americans is a particularly good way to help them. It would be far better to use all that labour to produce goods and infrastructure to benefit their own country instead.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

Ah, I was shaking my head at this story when someone tweeted it a few minutes ago: http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/15/dont-close-your-citibank-account-today-theyre-arresting-people/

Thanks for linking the story. None of the major news outlets are carrying it

[mor2]

mor2, you have a bad case of "I did it, why can't everyone else" disease. I'm glad shit worked out for you, I really am. But that doesn't mean everyone else's circumstances will allow it.

I dont think that I have ever argued anything related to opportunities, or suggested anything like what you said. I simply pointed out that I feel that some people on those protest and here, who like to think that they have the moral high ground and fight for society and the poor guy, against the evil them, are not necessary know what they talk about.

but more to the point, I am not against social security and am not against helping to make the plain field even for everyone, I am against rewarding the lazy, underachieving and those who screwed their life in every way, with my paycheck, because it's their basic human right. :bang:

for example before was discussed 'free higher education', while I tink it's a a good Idea to help people to level the plain field and gelp people, I also dont think that we should open the gate, we certainly dont need to flood the market with another thousands of art majors who cant find a job. just the same I against loans that they can default on, better create jobs for them i.e. scholarships like the one we had that allow them to work for their money and help the community at the same time.

I think a lot of the protesters think they have too much time on their hands too, which is why they want jobs.

I cant agree more, the question is how you do this. because lately I read here more blame the rich kind of stuff rather than discussion on similar topic that I noted on the first parts.

[Lord O' Bones]

Ah, I was shaking my head at this story when someone tweeted it a few minutes ago: http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/15/dont-close-your-citibank-account-today-theyre-arresting-people/

Appropriately polite yet scathing voice mail left.

We'll see if this has any effect at all or possible blow-back.

(I bank with different institutions.)

ETA: mor2, what is your native language? I just want to be able to read your posts with an authentic accent in my head. :)

[mor2]

Ah, I was shaking my head at this story when someone tweeted it a few minutes ago: http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/15/dont-close-your-citibank-account-today-theyre-arresting-people/

the video doesnt show why the people were arrested, only the usual sensational screaming of "it's wrong" and the "bad" cops just doing their job.

obviously that if they just wanted to close their accounts and went there one by one no one would ever said anything, and if they did, they would have payed them later in court but as it is the protester was getting crammed in a cell. Because if they stormed there together in such a huge group, that the bank realistically cannot service and disrupted service for other customers with their protest and/or confronted securty, refused to leave, stayed after closing hours. then they got what they deserve.

[Matrim Fox Cauthon]

Ah, I was shaking my head at this story when someone tweeted it a few minutes ago: http://redgreenandblue.org/2011/10/15/dont-close-your-citibank-account-today-theyre-arresting-people/

It's good to know that at least the cops are being honest about working for the corporations and not the people now.

[felice]

for example before was discussed 'free higher education', while I tink it's a a good Idea to help people to level the plain field and gelp people, I also dont think that we should open the gate, we certainly dont need to flood the market with another thousands of art majors who cant find a job.

That's two separate issues; having the market flooded with art majors who can't find jobs is a problem irrespective of whether their degree is funded by loan or taxes. It would make sense to limit the number of places in degrees to what is actually useful (but there are benefits to an educated population beyond what's directly applicable to paid employment).

I cant agree more, the question is how you do this. because lately I read here more blame the rich kind of stuff rather than discussion on similar topic that I noted on the first parts.

Currently the jobs don't exist. The rich could create them, the unemployed can't.

[MinDonner]

the video doesnt show why the people were arrested, only the usual sensational screaming of "it's wrong" and the "bad" cops just doing their job.

obviously that if they just wanted to close their accounts and went there one by one no one would ever said anything, and they did, they would have payed them later in court but rather protester getting crammed in a cell. Because if they stormed there together in such a huge group that the bank realistically cannot service and disrupted service for other customers confronted securty, refused to leave or stayed after closing hours, then I hope they got the other stick of that drama they tried to create.

mor2, did you actually watch the video as far as the woman being dragged off by the cops for trying to enter the bank with her account book in hand? If that's the sort of thing you consider cops "just doing their job" then I don't really know what to tell you.

[Stego]

Fuck Citibank.

Fuck the NYPD.

[mor2]

mor2, did you actually watch the video as far as the woman being dragged off by the cops for trying to enter the bank with her account book in hand? If that's the sort of thing you consider cops "just doing their job" then I don't really know what to tell you.

did you watch it? because it starts after the cops were already called in to remove the protesters from the bank premises...(if It was the other way, you would have asked what the government is hiding :rolleyes: )

as for your question, let me retort, would any woman(or man) that was just trying to enter the bank and close her account, would have been arrested or said 'no' to?

[Merentha]

let me retort, would any woman(or man) that was just trying to enter the bank and close her account, would have been arrested or said 'no' to?

Sure looks like it!

A calm, polite person walking up to that police line saying "I'd like to close my account please" was not going to be let in.

[Swift]

did you watch it? because it starts after the cops were already called in to remove the protesters from the bank premises...(if It was the other way, you would have asked what the government is hiding :rolleyes: )

as for your question, let me retort, would any woman(or man) that was just trying to enter the bank and close her account, would have been arrested or said 'no' to?

Since she was arrested, she has to be guilty! Else, why would they arrest her?

[Verboten]

Why are you assuming that everyone on welfare is a useless leech on society, mor2? And you do know that taxes actually go towards things like firefighters and infrastructure, right? When the government wants taxes it's not solely because they want to rob the fruits of your labour and give it to, god forbid, the unemployed.

[mor2]

Sure looks like it!

A calm, polite person walking up to that police line saying "I'd like to close my account please" was not going to be let in.

really because to me it looks like there is shit load of cops there, that are not normally there. I wonder why is that ... by avoiding the cause I can similarly tell you a story of guys who just tried to leave the bank and was attacked by the police!! I mean is this what you consider cops "just doing their job" ?!?!?

Fuck Citibank.

Fuck the NYPD.

btw the part I omitted was that this guy just robbed the bank, but details are unimportant when we try to prove a point about the corporates and the cops are fucking us, right?