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The Fall of the Wall

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Minor DwD spoilers:

From Dany's encounter with the ants that bypassed their wall,

I think it's foreshadowed that the Wall will not physically fall. But the Others will bypass it somehow, or nullify the magics.

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It's either that or the Others subvert the wards on The Wall somehow, and the former is much more dramatic. :P

Minor DwD spoilers:

From Dany's encounter with the ants that bypassed their wall,

I think it's foreshadowed that the Wall will not physically fall. But the Others will bypass it somehow, or nullify the magics.

FYI, Adwd spoiler policy ended yesterday. No need to use those spoilers now. ;)

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dosent old nan say something like the wall will hold as long as the men of the nights watch stay true ?

Awesome prologue for the winds of winter: each knife wound inflicted on john snow is mirrored by a colossal fracture apearing in the wall above castle black and as the last betrayer pulls his knife out and as jon falls to the ground the wall falls.

Chapter 1: sam practicing his horn blowing.

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So no one thinks the others will try to take the wall like the way the wildings did ie simply trying to smash in the gate?

Personally, I doubt this. The wall's main description is that it is a bulwark holding back the Others through its innate magic. Much is made of how while the wall stands tall, the others cannot pass. And just as much is made about how the Others will never pass, because such a huge structure could never fall. This suggests that the Others will cross, but they will not force entry to the North. The Wall will first have to fall.

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As Ned told Jon, a wall is only as strong as the men defending it. I am not sure that the wall has to literally fall so much as the defenders fail. The defenders being embroiled in the conflict after the assassination of Jon might well be the distraction needed for the NW to abandon their vigilance and allow the Others to cross the wall.

I have wondered why the wall had to be 700' tall if it was magic that kept the Others from crossing. While there is definitely magic in the wall, I think the height is significant. I think that the Others can cross over the wall, if it is not defended. The height gives the NW enough time to call reinforcements and to repel an attempted crossing, if they are paying attention. While they are distracted, anything can happen.

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I wish Tywin was still alive when the others arrive.

how would he react to something unnatural threatening "his" kingdom?

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Quit a lot is said about the horn of winter and there are several, especially one, candidates for that horn ... Plus Sam's prophetic dream in ASOS

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Quit a lot is said about the horn of winter and there are several, especially one, candidates for that horn ... Plus Sam's prophetic dream in ASOS

Which dream was that? Can you remind me please?

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You know how nobody can resist knocking down a tower- sand, blocks, LEGOS, magic ice- once it's built? And the bigger, the better? If I were George, I couldn't. It's too epic, too great an opportunity to pass up. I do think it comes down partly because it may no longer be needed; Dany and her fire-breathing dragons take out the Others and their wights (especially the wights, there really is no other way to kill them than by fire, and a bunch of folks with torches ain't gonna cut it, although there is wildfire... but that's another thread), and Jon's already begun the assimilation of wildlings into "civilized" Westerosi society... of course the wild card here are the CotF- not sure what to make of them.

The wall's main description is that it is a bulwark holding back the Others through its innate magic. Much is made of how while the wall stands tall, the others cannot pass. And just as much is made about how the Others will never pass, because such a huge structure could never fall. This suggests that the Others will cross, but they will not force entry to the North. The Wall will first have to fall.

Yes... it's like the "unsinkable" Titanic. I think it's doomed to fall. It's also possible it comes down during the epic confrontation with the Others- which is THE battle of the series, make no mistake, not any little squabbles over kingdoms... and while the Others are held at bay for now, the risk will return next winter (which we'll never see cuz the series will be over... or will it? ;) ), so SOMEBODYwill need to rebuild it... Hmmm.... will have to be a Northman.... probably a Stark.... have to be trained in the supernatural somehow.... ok, enough; Bran the Rebuilder :cool4:

Kadence, your pic is awesome :agree:

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There was something about the snow as well, someone in the bookes mentions (maybe old Nan, or someone at the Wall) that the snow is several hundreds feet deep at wintertime, so the Wall was built so high that at least the top of it would remain above the snow-level. So at wintertime it's not so huge as usual.

Was there any try to surpass the Wall by the others before? if the Others were not appearing for thousands of years, and the Wall was built after their last attack, maybe it was never tried before if it can keep them far from the realm. Do we know anything about it?

Personally I'm also convinced that the Wall will fall. The dramatic point of view is obvious. If we consider the actual political situation of Westeros: the realm has fallen apart, peoples are at war to each other, nobody cares on preparation for winter, and only few people believe in the Others. they cannot be easily convinced until this is only a rumour from deserting NWs or wildlings. Thousands and thousand have to experience the coming back of the Others to convince landlords and everybody to unite their force and fight against them. You see, Dany has dragons for ages, according to the story if I count well they are around two years old now, thousands of people have seen them, and their coming back is still considered as unchecked rumour! I'm afraid it will be the same with the Others, many have to see them before any action will be done.

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It's either that or the Others subvert the wards on The Wall somehow, and the former is much more dramatic. :P

More dramatic than a new Night King (whoever that is)? OR how about both - new Night King somehow breaks down the Wall and lets the Others through?

Throughout the series there have been references to how the Wall (or other walls) are only as strong as the people guarding it. So I think that the internal affairs in the Night's Watch will let the Others through - but it might take the form of a massive collapse of the Wall, which would also parallel the collapse of the Night's Watch.

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honestly, I've never thought the Wall will fall. Lol even with all the foreshadowing, just do not think it will

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I also think the Wall will fall, it's too good an imagery to resist. Furthermore you don't think up a super bigass wall and tell everyone how important it is not to destroy it if you don't mean to destroy it. First rule of catastrophe movies also.

Am I the only one, by the way, who believes that the destruction of the Wall may somehow be a good thing in the end? No further use denying my romantic world views anyway.

I never heard of a wall dividing and alienating people to be an essentially good thing. And in a work of fiction? Some weird kind of metaphor if a big icey Wall would really prove to be the only thing protecting 'us' from 'them'. Xenophobia much? The Wall is a red herring, and we need it to fall, I think. Because the true enemy of humanity are not some lame ice monsters or mindless zombies, but other human beings, of course, with their need for love, power and approval. As has been shown to us in five books now.

Right? Please? Could we get some actual meaning in the end instead of melting down evil monsters with superiour weapon power newly imported from Essos after our big imperialist shield has failed because someone accidentally pushed the melt-down-button on a magic horn? I don't need another LOST.

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No, you are not the only one believing that the fall of the Wall will be a good thing. I think the Wall created more problems than it solved. (Even though I still don't know what the real problem is, but I don' think it's White Walkers and Wights. They are just symptoms.)

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On the question of why the Wall needs to be 700 feet tall:

I always assumed that the spells in the ice were the primary defense against the Others, while the height / thickness was the primary defense against Wildlings and Giants.

I agree with LittleDragon that the Wall needs to be taller than the tallest drifts, especially since Others (and maybe the Wights) seem to walk effortlessly on top of the snow. Of course, it's also nice to have a wall taller than the nearby trees and tall enough so that the top is out of arrow range.

On the question of whether the Wall will be intact the end of the series:

Unless the Others (and their Wights and yet-to-be-seen ice spiders) can be destroyed completely, I think the Wall will always be needed. In a Westeros with just people (including wildings), Children of the Forest, and even giants, it would be better in the long run for the Wall to be gone.

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Am I the only one, by the way, who believes that the destruction of the Wall may somehow be a good thing in the end?

You are not alone. The Wall must go for sake of peace and in restoring some balance, I think. But if it will go down Kabooom or by chunks at a time (like icebergs cracking, piece by piece) in the aftermath of war when reality sets in, I just don't know.

The latter seems appropriate to me, so the failure is permanently etched in the memory of mankind in Westeros, with the remains of the Wall as a landmark reminder. I can picture it.

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I think the prophecy says that AA or PTWP would lead to a never ending summer. I read this as the end of The Others & Wights so it wouldn't be needed. I also thought it was so big because it was a big deal at some point so successive kings kept adding a few kilometres as a public symbol to win favour of the people.

It's gonna fall, the whole Jon stabbing looks like a clear way of making sure it doesn't happen on his watch. I think greyscale's going to be involved, the description of it just made me feel it was tied to The Others somehow.

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