The Fall of the Wall

[rmholt]

Horn of Joramun: It stretches my sense of credulity that the broken soundless little thing Jon gave to Sam is the horn of Joramun. He took it to the Citadel with him. It will be interesting to see if it has any power.

All the Others have to do to "break" the Wall is break the spells. Since my theory about Jon's last POV is that the Others were involved "...and the cold..." the Wall is already breached.

But I could be wrong

[rmholt]

Whoa, I totally forgot about that Horn.

It's definitely old enough to be the Horn of Winter, and if it could be repaired...

True I doubt Sam would deliberately destroy the Wall, but then again he doesn't know what he has. There's always the chance it will fall into the wrong hands.

How do you know it is old? I am asking bc the cloak appeared to be in good shape and freshly buried. The Wall was built 8000 years ago. I forget when Joramun was supposed to have lived.

[rmholt]

As Ned told Jon, a wall is only as strong as the men defending it. I am not sure that the wall has to literally fall so much as the defenders fail. The defenders being embroiled in the conflict after the assassination of Jon might well be the distraction needed for the NW to abandon their vigilance and allow the Others to cross the wall.

I have wondered why the wall had to be 700' tall if it was magic that kept the Others from crossing. While there is definitely magic in the wall, I think the height is significant. I think that the Others can cross over the wall, if it is not defended. The height gives the NW enough time to call reinforcements and to repel an attempted crossing, if they are paying attention. While they are distracted, anything can happen.

Interesting thought - the number 7 being holy came from the Andals though

[Arctic Cowboy]

in the event of the actual fall, which is more likely: blocks of ice crashing down, or the ice melting and flooding the surroundings?

there have been observations from the characters that the ice glistens and turns watery on the surface during the day. there was also that instance when it "fought back" and made a sort of avalanche that killed jarl and company. so there are hints that both could possibly occur. but what sort of effect could blowing the horn bring about? will there be more than just an avalanche when an external magical force comes into the picture?

just wondering what the general opinion is on this board.

[rmholt]

in the event of the actual fall, which is more likely: blocks of ice crashing down, or the ice melting and flooding the surroundings?

there have been observations from the characters that the ice glistens and turns watery on the surface during the day. there was also that instance when it "fought back" and made a sort of avalanche that killed jarl and company. so there are hints that both could possibly occur. but what sort of effect could blowing the horn bring about? will there be more than just an avalanche when an external magical force comes into the picture?

just wondering what the general opinion is on this board.

Sublimation

[Last Prince of Ghost Hill]

The Others will find another way to get beyond the Wall. Maybe the Eastwatch ships? Perhaps the Magic relies on the Night's watch sworn men. Maybe the oaths hold the magic since it seems Brandon the Builder relied on the magic of the children of the forest. Maybe the Wildlings will kill off the sworn brothers which will nullify the magic perhaps..

[Marakesh]

We know the wights can be carried through the wall but can they walk through? If so, its easy to see a scenario wherein they could gain control of it and dismantle it from the inside. Perhaps a large group of wildling survivors shows up at the gate and the new and incompetent Nights Watch wants to refuse entry. The wildlings on their side rebel, kill off the remaining watch, and smash the gate open so that any wildling can get through to safety. Except now the Others' wights can invade, take Castle Black, and start digging a big hole in the Wall. Personally, I would prefer that to some magic horn.

[Arctic Cowboy]

Sublimation

O_O Mother have mercy.

[rmholt]

O_O Mother have mercy.

Never discount chemistry!

http://ga.water.usgs.gov/edu/watercyclesublimation.html

A lot less messy than other speculations. Plus, looks like magic! but isnt.

[valyrian_steel]

If the wall doesnt fall then the NW can spend eternity just mooning the others off the top of it. For the south to be imperiled by the Others, the wall must fall.

[Arctic Cowboy]

A lot less messy than other speculations. Plus, looks like magic! but isnt.

good point. hey, maybe the others' headquarters in the heart of winter is actually a chem lab facility. those ignorant westerosi won't know what hit them!

however, i still want bowen marsh getting crushed by an avalanche. :D

[rmholt]

good point. hey, maybe the others' headquarters in the heart of winter is actually a chem lab facility. those ignorant westerosi won't know what hit them!

however, i still want bowen marsh getting crushed by an avalanche. :D

That would explain the meth head appearance of the wights. Marsh - couldnt happen to a nicer guy.

[Gar Weg Wun Sygerrik]

Theres a fairly large swathe of land between the wall and I think its the west shore. Wildlings don't use it because there's a river and swamps and its too deifficult to cross. The others bring such extreme cold that it hurts to breathe. It would be pretty awkward if the wall was useless for all 8,000 years because they could just freeze the water and cross like it were land.

[Anatisog]

After Jon's murder, there is bound to be a reprisal. This is the murder of a LC after all, and not just what happened at Craster's, where a bunch of brothers killed each other and end of story. This murder and treason happened in the eyes of everyone, and surely not every crow was against Jon, he still has his friends amongst the Watch who will take revenge. Neither do I think the wildlings will idly watch, since I believe the traitor's knives will go after them soon (they were one of the main grievances of Marsh and co). And the queen and her men are around too and will take side. I believe many are going to die, which will leave an awfully large amount of corpses around, ready to be turned into wights. Only, they will be at this side of the wall, ready to open the gates to any other that comes round. Or just tear the wall down.

[~DarkHorse~]

Aah, the look on Sam's face when he accidently blows the Horn and the wall falls down infront of him, blocks of ice skidding and stopping at his feet...

Aah, the look on Sam's face when he accidently blows the Horn and the wall falls down infront of him, blocks of ice skidding and stopping at his feet...

I really want to see that!

[~DarkHorse~]

I hope the wall does fall, it would make an epic scene in the TV series. Also, I'd love to see the southerners reactions to the collapse, considering they don't take the NW and others very seriously. Gosh, sometimes I wish Joffrey was still alive! His reaction would no doubt be funny.

[Kiss of Fire]

Yes, the Wall is coming down...I firmly believe this will happen.

Do the horns floating around look the same? Maybe the wrong horn will get blown trying to call a dragon by the wall and oops...it brings the wall down...lol.

Here is a theory....GRRM writes his characters as not black or white, but gray...so as a lot of posters have indicated, maybe the Others are not the total, evil enemy...is there any chance they are cursed by the COTF and will revert to ?First Men? ?Human? once they pass south of the wall? Maybe the COTF are the real enemy North of the Wall.

[jon crow]

i think the horn of winter will just break the enchantments that ward the wall against the others and wights. although maybe magic also holds the wall together, who knows? [and if we're bringing science into the discussion, how about resonance? ^_^ http://en.wikipedia....s_Bridge_(1940)] in regards to wights, the watch brought the dead bodies into castle black before they rose. i think once they're reanimated they can't cross the wall. coldhands couldn't use the passageway underneath, remember? though i'm really curious as to how coldhands isn't mindless like the other wights.

if sam's horn is the horn of winter (and really it's the only horn we know about that makes sense), i'm a bit incredulous to the thought that if he blows it halfway across the world it will have any effect. blowing the dragonbinding horn on the iron islands didn't affect dany's dragons in mereen. however, the prime window of opportunity for the others to attack seems to be during the chaos following jon's (attempted) assassination, especially considering all the foreshadowing with the cold. but if the horn is miles and miles away and the others can't pass the threshold of the wall... questions, questions...

anyone want to discuss the potential symbolism of the following line? joramun blew the horn of winter, and woke giants from the earth. it pops up A LOT.

it sounds like waking giants could mean something more than what's literally apparent, but i don't have many ideas what it could mean.

[The Storm King]

the wall sees how utterly stupid selsye and her men are and breaks itself to spare itself from further stupidity.

i hate selsye and her men

[blacken]

I think Jon will bring the wall down with the horn of winter, I reckon Sam will find a way to fix it in the Citadel and somehow they will come to the conclusion that the wall has to be destroyed for the betterment of Westeros.

The fact that Jon is open minded enough to recognise the wildlings as fellow human beings deserving of protection by the night's watch, even going so far as to risk men and ships to rescue them from Hard Home, suggests to me that something will happen following his stabbing that makes him see the wall in a different light.

I also think that the prophecy from the HOTU where Dany sees a blue flower growing from a chink in the wall lends itself to the theory that Jon (represented by the blue flower) is important in the breaking of the wall as a form of defence.