BrosBeforeSnows Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 I missed the Mance-as-Abel and Hound-as-gravedigger ones as well and the whole Pate thing went WHOOOOOOOSHHHHHHHH way over my head.I missed the Frey pies too until I found this forum. I thought maybe Manderly had poisoned the pies but that he'd been ingesting small-but-increasing amounts of the poison himself for weeks beforehand to build up a tolerance for it. But that wouldn't have worked as it would have been obvious he'd used poison anyway if his enemies started dropping dead after eating the pies.I got the Frey pies right away, but the Abel-Mance thing went right over my head. And looking back, that one seems more obvious than some. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrosBeforeSnows Posted October 28, 2011 Share Posted October 28, 2011 There isn't a reveal so much as once it is pointed out and you reread, it is obvious. The big hint: Maggy isn't her name. Maegi is her title; Cersei had it wrong.I've heard theories that she's one of the Children of the Forest, but I'm pretty sure the Maegi theory is the right one. I've always thought that there's got to be some kind of a connection between Maggy the Frog, the Ghost of High Heart and Mirri Maz Duur. Both Maggy and the Ghost are referred to as "woodswitches" and both came to Westeros from Essos (supposedly). We can be fairly certain that the Ghost of High Heart was the woodswitch Jenny of Oldstones brought with her to Westeros when she married Prince Duncan the Small. And Maggy was apparently brought to Lannisport from the East by her husband... Maggy, we know, read the future by way of blood magic, rather than fire or weirwoods, so I'm guessing she probably attended the same Asshai School of Blood Magic that Mirri Maz Duur did. However, I don't recall how exactly the Ghost of High Heart read the future... I'll have to reread that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The Ghost is a COTF, well Barristan says she pretends to be actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lars Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Maggy, we know, read the future by way of blood magic, rather than fire or weirwoods, so I'm guessing she probably attended the same Asshai School of Blood Magic that Mirri Maz Duur did. However, I don't recall how exactly the Ghost of High Heart read the future... I'll have to reread that.Mirri Maz Duur was taught her blood magic by Maester Marwyn (the Mastiff) of Oldtown when they met during their travels, presumably in Asshai. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lars Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Is it sad I was proud of myself for catching it was Tom O'Sevens that the source for the Dondarrion Boys and why the Lannister/Freys had been so frustrated by them?I didn't think Arya's assassination technique was all that special, but I loved the chapter nonetheless. We had been well-prepped for poison in many previous instances.I recall now being surprised to learn about Tyrion/Joffrey and the poison. I forgot about Tyrion's "visit" to Pycelle's room early on. *facepalm*It took me a few dozen hints before I caught on that Petyr Baelish, Littlefinger, was a bastard and from "The Fingers". Grrr...Tyrion did not poison Joff. I thought that was pretty clear. Also, Littlefinger is not a bastard. He was given the nickname by Edmure, for his tiny holdings on the Fingers, or perhaps because he is short. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Mirri Maz Duur was taught her blood magic by Maester Marwyn (the Mastiff) of Oldtown when they met during their travels, presumably in Asshai.I don't think Marwyw has anything to do with blood magic...He just taught her his healing skills.Tyrion did not poison Joff. I thought that was pretty clear. Also, Littlefinger is not a bastard. He was given the nickname by Edmure, for his tiny holdings on the Fingers, or perhaps because he is short.I think it's pretty clear why he's called Littlefinger...The story he told Sansa is just a gallant version... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Lars Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I don't think Marwyw has anything to do with blood magic...He just taught her his healing skills.I think it's pretty clear why he's called Littlefinger...The story he told Sansa is just a gallant version...Lysa Arryn didn't seem to mind.You're right about Marwyn, I don't know where I got that. I think it spawned from a theory I had about resurrecting Pate, but the faceless man theory makes much more sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightsking Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 The foreshadowing of "kill the boy and let the man be born", the constant boy references. "the night is dark and full of terrors" constantly repeated. "black has always been my color"The dream of black ice armor and a sword of fire defending the wall. Mormonts raven repeatedly saying "king""winter has no king" but the night had a king once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knightsking Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Mance had brought more men to the wall than Yoren and Dearon ever could. To quote the half hand "he was the best of us, and also the worst" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordthade Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well, maybe I missed something else here, then, but my first inclination was to go with the old lady as the poisoner (as is hinted), but I could swear I recall Tyrion telling Jamie he did it. Seems like Tyrion stuck with that, too. I recognize "kinslayer" could reference the killing of his father (and mother), but I thought he even said it in a POV moment more or less to himself while contemplating his situation. Hmmm... I'm sticking with my interpretation of Littlefinger, though. Just too pat. :smug: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dragonfish Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well, maybe I missed something else here, then, but my first inclination was to go with the old lady as the poisoner (as is hinted), but I could swear I recall Tyrion telling Jamie he did it. Seems like Tyrion stuck with that, too. I recognize "kinslayer" could reference the killing of his father (and mother), but I thought he even said it in a POV moment more or less to himself while contemplating his situation. Hmmm...Tyrion only said that to hurt Jaime, after he found out that Jaime lied to him about Tysha.It's pretty clear that it was one of the Tyrells who poisoned Joff, and that they were in cahoots with Littlefinger, based on what he tells Sansa.I'm sticking with my interpretation of Littlefinger, though. Just too pat. :smug:What is your evidence that Littlefinger is a bastard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capon Breath Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I'm taking pity on you in reminding you that the Baratheon seat is Storm's End. Stannis has always been sore about the fact that Renly got Storm's End while he got Dragonstone.Thank you - all pity gratefully receieved ! I'm much less embarrassed about this as its simply something i read & forgot as compared to almost everything else that I just plain didnt pick up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capon Breath Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 We know that the time frame of AFFC and ADWD overlap, could the prologue of AFFC actually happen after the events of ADDW. I know it is a real big leap there, but I thought it was interestingIs there a thread anywhere that tries to put the chapters of AFFC & ADWD in order? Would definately make interesting reading and help with some clues maybe?EDIT - Found something here http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/31411-global-timeline/page__st__40 looks like thanks go to ErrantBard (who I think is in this thread) respect. Starts with up to AFFC then goes on to an external link with ADWD as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 keepin it strictly aDwD (have done this topic since GoT and i dont recall anymore but i missed a LOT of shit in the first book. since then i learned to read carefully)...Frey pie. i had no idea. it's all right there tho. 3 huge "pork" pies, the rat king reference, the way Manderly served the pie to the Boltons and the Freys...Who the Harpy might be.I missed the entire Blood Raven thing but i hadn't read The Sworn Sword for some reason until after DwD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Relic Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 Well, maybe I missed something else here, then, but my first inclination was to go with the old lady as the poisoner (as is hinted), but I could swear I recall Tyrion telling Jamie he did it. Seems like Tyrion stuck with that, too. I recognize "kinslayer" could reference the killing of his father (and mother), but I thought he even said it in a POV moment more or less to himself while contemplating his situation. Hmmm...I'm sticking with my interpretation of Littlefinger, though. Just too pat. :smug:It was the Queen of Thorns using Sansa's crown while in cahoots with Littlefinger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pliskin Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 What is your evidence that Littlefinger is a bastard?There is none. He's not.His name is Baelish, his father was a friend of Lord Hoster Tully.And he was nicknamed Littlefinger by Edmure for... well, you know :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4rcane Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I initially thought that Little Walder and Big Walder were ones killed by Theon and Ramsey instead of Rickon and Bran. How on earth were we surpose to have guessed that the woman that the place Theon mentioned actually had two sons. I didn't find out that Little Walder and Big Walder were actually alive til A Dance With Dragons, Reek first chapter and whose body was used instead of Rickon and Bran Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeyne Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 It took me an inordinate amount of time to figure out that Mance was the bard in Winterfell. I was embarassed when I talked to my wife about it, and she could of looked at me like I'm an idiot. I missed that too and felt like a right dumb ass. Luckily I'm the only one in real life who has read all of the books so I didn't get to share my mistaken thoughts with anyone. Not like the time where I somehow convinced myself that Boo Radley in To Kill a Mockingbird was black and convinced my brother, before I read the book again and discovered that he really, really wasn't. Shameful! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rickon is FIERCE Posted October 29, 2011 Author Share Posted October 29, 2011 Is there a thread anywhere that tries to put the chapters of AFFC & ADWD in order? Would definately make interesting reading and help with some clues maybe?EDIT - Found something here http://asoiaf.wester...ne/page__st__40 looks like thanks go to ErrantBard (who I think is in this thread) respect. Starts with up to AFFC then goes on to an external link with ADWD as wellThanks for posting this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckwheat Posted October 29, 2011 Share Posted October 29, 2011 I almost wish I didn't read the forums sometimes as I might have picked up a lot of this on a reread.I agree with you there. I so wish to know if I could have found out some things that I did not later.That said, I missed pretty much everything, from Joff, Tommen and Myrcella being Jaime's onwards. I was 15 and naive when I read AGOT and I believed everything said by any character.Frey Pie, Quentyn - the sun that rises in the west and sets in the east, Renly+Loras and R+L=J and so many other things - I wish I did not know now, so that I might figure them out by myself. Especially R+L=J, somehow I still refuse to fully believe it just because I am so angry with myself for not finding them out in the books.But I am proud that I noticed these: Hound - gravedigger (although I was not sure), Jaqen - Alchemist (although I thought that Pate that Sammy meets is still the Pate from the prologue), Maggy the Frog - Jeyne's grandmother (is this even supposed to be a secret?), Aegon is fake (this is not confirmed yet, though) and Mance - Abel - Bael a little before it was actually revealed.Also I did not believe that Davos, Brandon and Rickon were dead (it is clear from Theon's chapters, or I simply refused to believe they were dead). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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