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As you were.

And I think up until he actually fell in love, that would have been true.

His marriage was a political alliance, and while he was fond of his wife, he just didn't love her.

Up until he met Lyanna, no, he would not have stepped out on his wife, kept a mistress, etc. which I why I tend to think that after finding out his wife was barren, he may have resolved to put her aside, because then, at least they wouldn't be living a lie, and her son would still be King one day.

And while many couples endured political alliances, and suffered because of duty, I get the feeling that Rhaegar just was not able to do that, (maybe because he was honest), and maybe used prophesy for two-fold reasons:

One, he did believe it, but two, it also justified what he did.

Prophesy aside, he would need another heir beyond Aegon, in case something happened to him.

IMHO, of all the POV's, Selmy's is the most reliable. Griff and Cersei are the ones questionable to me.

And when Selmy tics off all the Targ. loves, he doesn't do it from, "oh this is a good thing," no, he quite objectively called those loves "slow poisons," and ruinous to the well-being of the Kingdom.

Perhaps he has a blind spot with Ashara, and doesn't want to think she would let herself be seduced by a player like Brandon.

I do think she probably fell for Brandon, but he moved on, so she turned to Ned, which would really bring to light some interesting dynamics in the Stark pack.

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Okay. I have a theory of how we're going to find out about Jon's parentage. I don't know if this has been told before, but hear me out.

There's Howland Reed who knows, but as far as he's concerned, it doesn't seem like GRRM is going to bring him back anytime soon. (Though, with the happenings at Winterfell, you'd think he'd be more interested in his kid's well being, even though he probably knows that they are OK. Any father would STILL want to know for sure.)

But what if Bran sees it through the trees? I don't know about you, but I REALLY don't think Bran is going to be confined to a tree anytime soon. I think he'll be able to go out there and tell Jon just exactly what's going on.

Does anyone else think that something like this is plausible?

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I get that most of us might want R+L=J to be true so our beloved Jon will turn out from being a bastard to be the rightful heir to the throne. But let's have an open mind.

I still consider the possibility of the B+A=J theory and since the strongest argument against that is timeline I googled a lot.

281 Harrenhal Tourney = Brandon meets Ashara and a relationship begins

282 Rhaegar abducts Lyanna

Robert calls his banners

Brandon runs to King's Landing where awaits his father to ransom him and eventually dies

Ned marries Catelyn

283 Robb's and Jon's birth

Rhaegar dies

Lyanna dies

Ashara dies

Jon could have been concived in 282 before Lyanna's abduction, like Rob was, and still been born like Rob in 283. In 282 Brandon was still alive.

I don't have a direct line with Martin or anything but let's consider the possibility. Still R+L=J theory seems more obvious but I 'm being suspicious.

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I get that most of us might want R+L=J to be true so our beloved Jon will turn out from being a bastard to be the rightful heir to the throne. But let's have an open mind.

I still consider the possibility of the B+A=J theory and since the strongest argument against that is timeline I googled a lot.

Jon was born around 8 or 9 months before Daenerys, according to this SSM. Since Dany was born about 9 months after the Trident, that puts Jon's birth at around the Sack of King's Landing, and his conception at a few months into the year-long war. Since Brandon died right before the war began, he could not possibly have been the one to father Jon.

We don't dismiss this theory because we want our beloved Jon to become the heir to the Iron Throne. We dismiss it because we've known for a long time that it couldn't possibly be true, unless George decides to change his mind on when Jon was born.

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I get that most of us might want R+L=J to be true so our beloved Jon will turn out from being a bastard to be the rightful heir to the throne. But let's have an open mind.

The question is, does R+L=J necessarily mean Jon becoming heir to the throne? IMO it's more plausible his (maybe) Targ blood either play a part in some prophecy or get him involved with a dragon.

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The question is, does R+L=J necessarily mean Jon becoming heir to the throne? IMO it's more plausible his (maybe) Targ blood either play a part in some prophecy or get him involved with a dragon.

Yes, I agree. As a matter of fact, I don't think the Iron Throne is/will be that important when all is said and done.

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Okay. I have a theory of how we're going to find out about Jon's parentage. I don't know if this has been told before, but hear me out.

There's Howland Reed who knows, but as far as he's concerned, it doesn't seem like GRRM is going to bring him back anytime soon. (Though, with the happenings at Winterfell, you'd think he'd be more interested in his kid's well being, even though he probably knows that they are OK. Any father would STILL want to know for sure.)

But what if Bran sees it through the trees? I don't know about you, but I REALLY don't think Bran is going to be confined to a tree anytime soon. I think he'll be able to go out there and tell Jon just exactly what's going on.

Does anyone else think that something like this is plausible?

:agree:

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I get that most of us might want R+L=J to be true so our beloved Jon will turn out from being a bastard to be the rightful heir to the throne. But let's have an open mind.

I still consider the possibility of the B+A=J theory and since the strongest argument against that is timeline I googled a lot.

281 Harrenhal Tourney = Brandon meets Ashara and a relationship begins

282 Rhaegar abducts Lyanna

Robert calls his banners

Brandon runs to King's Landing where awaits his father to ransom him and eventually dies

Ned marries Catelyn

283 Robb's and Jon's birth

Rhaegar dies

Lyanna dies

Ashara dies

Jon could have been concived in 282 before Lyanna's abduction, like Rob was, and still been born like Rob in 283. In 282 Brandon was still alive.

I don't have a direct line with Martin or anything but let's consider the possibility. Still R+L=J theory seems more obvious but I 'm being suspicious.

Actually, I think everyone is of a mind that if Jon does get the throne, it will be by accident.

He was never meant to be the Heir, but more pragmatically, a "spare to the Heir," and propetically speaking, something more important than one throne.

Again, I think at the end of the day, we will find out that at this point, the "prophesy" is being driven by his love for Lyanna, rather than Lyanna SPECIFICALLY, being the ingredient to fulfill the prophesy.

You don't have to be a spiritual person to realize your not supposed to "tweak" prophesy, or manipulate it into happening, it just does, and I think the minute Rhaegar STOPPED being focused on prophesy, because now he was focused on Lyanna, is when he actually fulfilled it- if he did.

Remember, he probably was going for a girl, and not a another son just yet, (though he did decide at some point that he was wrong, and his Aegeon, was NOT TPTWP, but then again, that too may have correlated with his falling in love with Lyanna).

:bowdown:

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Okay, another thought.

I just got through reading "Hedge Knight," and I have lots of questions, but I will try and keep it short.

One observation:

It would seem that Rhaegar potentially had LOTS of cousins, particularly male cousins beyond Robert.

Where did they go?

He's been wrong about the prophesy before:

-First he was TPTWP, then he thought it was his son Aegeon, but then he decided it wasn't, and Maester Aemon thinks it's Dany now, so lots of uncertainy which would lead one to believe, that the prophesy is not that cut-and-dry.

Is it possible the prophesy is not even about Aerys branch of the family, but one of his cousins/nephews floating around out there in the Free Cities, or elsewhere?

They would have the blood of the Dragon too.

Whatever happened to Aerion's infant son who was passed over in the succession, and HIS offspring?

Is this where Varys and Illerio got Aegeon? He would still be a dragon, just not Rhaegars, and for Aegeons supposed "smallfolk" upbringing, he's already showed signs of arrogance, and temper, (upending the cervasse board and ordering Tyrion to clean it up).

Doesn't really sound like the Rhaegar, OR the Elia we've heard of.

Bloodraven, (three-eyed crow), seems to be a serious player in all this.

What's his angle?

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Okay, another thought.

I just got through reading "Hedge Knight," and I have lots of questions, but I will try and keep it short.

One observation:

It would seem that Rhaegar potentially had LOTS of cousins, particularly male cousins beyond Robert.

Where did they go?

He's been wrong about the prophesy before:

-First he was TPTWP, then he thought it was his son Aegeon, but then he decided it wasn't, and Maester Aemon thinks it's Dany now, so lots of uncertainy which would lead one to believe, that the prophesy is not that cut-and-dry.

Is it possible the prophesy is not even about Aerys branch of the family, but one of his cousins/nephews floating around out there in the Free Cities, or elsewhere?

They would have the blood of the Dragon too.

Whatever happened to Aerion's infant son who was passed over in the succession, and HIS offspring?

Is this where Varys and Illerio got Aegeon? He would still be a dragon, just not Rhaegars, and for Aegeons supposed "smallfolk" upbringing, he's already showed signs of arrogance, and temper, (upending the cervasse board and ordering Tyrion to clean it up).

Doesn't really sound like the Rhaegar, OR the Elia we've heard of.

Bloodraven, (three-eyed crow), seems to be a serious player in all this.

What's his angle?

Yes, good point(s). I've read The Hedge Knight, but I have to go back and re-read some of it. All these family trees and who is related to whom... the whole thing is doing my head in big time. I remember one of Egg's (Aegon V) cousins who was a nasty piece of work, and I think it's mentioned he died somewhere else, not Westeros (Braavos, maybe?). And I also remember that at the time I thought it weird, I though he hadn't died. But I can't remember why on earth I thought that, just that I did think it. :bang:

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Is it possible the prophesy is not even about Aerys branch of the family, but one of his cousins/nephews floating around out there in the Free Cities, or elsewhere?

Well, a woodswitch told Aerys and Rhaella that the PWWP would be born from their line. Given that this woodswitch is probably the "Ghost of High Heart" that Arya meets in ASoS, and given that several of her prophecies have been shown to be accurate, I'm inclined to believe her on this.

I remember one of Egg's (Aegon V) cousins who was a nasty piece of work, and I think it's mentioned he died somewhere else, not Westeros (Braavos, maybe?).

I think you mean Aegon's brother, Aerion Brightfire. He's the one who died after drinking a pot of wildfire (which he thought would turn him into a dragon).

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Well, a woodswitch told Aerys and Rhaella that the PWWP would be born from their line. Given that this woodswitch is probably the "Ghost of High Heart" that Arya meets in ASoS, and given that several of her prophecies have been shown to be accurate, I'm inclined to believe her on this.

I think you mean Aegon's brother, Aerion Brightfire. He's the one who died after drinking a pot of wildfire (which he thought would turn him into a dragon).

Thank you!! :)

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Yes, good point(s). I've read The Hedge Knight, but I have to go back and re-read some of it. All these family trees and who is related to whom... the whole thing is doing my head in big time. I remember one of Egg's (Aegon V) cousins who was a nasty piece of work, and I think it's mentioned he died somewhere else, not Westeros (Braavos, maybe?). And I also remember that at the time I thought it weird, I though he hadn't died. But I can't remember why on earth I thought that, just that I did think it. :bang:

I just can't get over where the rest of them went.

Is this why Roberts Father went into the Free Cities to find a suitable bride for Rhaegar, but didn't turn up any female cousins? :blushing:

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I think you mean Aegon's brother, Aerion Brightfire. He's the one who died after drinking a pot of wildfire (which he thought would turn him into a dragon).

Yes, that's the one. Thank you. And he was in Lys, not Braavos, though I'm not sure if he was there when he died...

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I just can't get over where the rest of them went.

Is this why Roberts Father went into the Free Cities to find a suitable bride for Rhaegar, but didn't turn up any female cousins? :blushing:

Gods be good, I have no recollection whatsoever of any of this with Robert's father! In which book is it mentioned, do you know?

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Well, a woodswitch told Aerys and Rhaella that the PWWP would be born from their line. Given that this woodswitch is probably the "Ghost of High Heart" that Arya meets in ASoS, and given that several of her prophecies have been shown to be accurate, I'm inclined to believe her on this.

I've always interpreted that prophecy to mean "of Aegon's" line, and I've given an explanation based on the text in other threads. However, wasn't he "The Unlikely," so he didn't have any living siblngs or first cousins with dragon blood, and his descendants are pretty well docmented. At the time of Robert's rebellion, only Aerys, his sister/wife, and their children/grandchildren remained, correct?

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I don't believe in the "Rhaegar wanted a spare" theory because I think he was expecting a girl to be his 3rd child, and he'd name her Visenya. He was so obsessed with the prophecy that the thought of Aegon dying before furfill it never crossed his mind.

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I've always interpreted that prophecy to mean "of Aegon's" line, and I've given an explanation based on the text in other threads. However, wasn't he "The Unlikely," so he didn't have any living siblngs or first cousins with dragon blood, and his descendants are pretty well docmented. At the time of Robert's rebellion, only Aerys, his sister/wife, and their children/grandchildren remained, correct?

But he was 'The Unlikely' because he was king even though he was the fourth son of a third son, or something like that, right? I don't remember any mention to what happened to his sisters. I remember checking the Targaryen family tree and not finding much info about it. I've often wondered if maester Aemon kept a journal of some sort. Something that could be found by someone...

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