R+L=J v.16

[Im no Ser]

I tend to agree with the R+L=J Theories, but I've always wondered about this one problem: Are not the Targaryens all blonde haired and blue eyed? Not really Jon's description.

No, just most of them. Baelor Breakspear (son of King Daeron and a dornish princess) for example had his mother's dornish features.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

No, just most of them. Baelor Breakspear (son of King Daeron and a dornish princess) for example had his mother's dornish features.

Princess Rhaenys was also supposed to be brown-haired like Elia Martell.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

It's his thing, he needs to be unpredictable, otherwise it's just another fantasy series. Note that this is just my two cents, I could be wrong.

Nonsense. Someone asked him once if he'd ever change a planned development because people had figured it out and he said no.

[Alia of the knife]

Well said, Martin has never truly been concerned about "surprising" his readers, Take the Red Wedding, Robb's death was foreshadowed long before it happened but he told it so well that people were still surprised and bewildered (Myself included) even though I knew, I knew long before it happened that it would. R + L = J is going to come down to his delivery of itand we know he's good at that. The same way The Red Wedding as a delivery tool was.

Thanks, and yes his delivery of that story will be especially powerful.

He also tends to use other characters experiences as a tool.

When Ser Jorahs story of his winning the tournament was told, I kind of suspected then that Lyanna had impacted Rhaegar the same way, and that he crowned her because he was in love with her, and not because she was the KOTLT.

[zalim]

i think its very likely that jon is son of R and L but i dont think GRR will make it that predictable for us.

Offcourse some people argue that why he doesnt look like targs or why he is warg etc etc well its absolutely possible

for him to be targ from his fathers sides and stark from mothers side yet still be a warg.

Remember starks are the ONLY ONES with warg personalites and the reason? simple remember the story ygritte told jon? about how a wildling king married stark girl

and their son became the next stark lord? that was the time the stark and wildling blood mixed and from WILDLINGS starks inherited this ability.

So far we have only seen this ability in wildlings AND starks so JON can have this ability from his mother (neds sister).

It might help him control the dragon better in future as a warg he can get inside any animal or tree and controll their body so i think if he really is targ and stark both

he is the most unique person in ASOIAF.

Same goes for Brann he is a green seer probably the most powerfull character in series so even he will have ability to control dragons.

But i am sure GRRM will do something to mess with our minds it def wont be that easy to predict. I think for sure if JON is really dead !!! that would be the biggest mistake from GRRM.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

i think its very likely that jon is son of R and L but i dont think GRR will make it that predictable for us.

I don't think it's predictable at all. I think people poring over clues and obsessing over it and aggregating clues (which are normally often hundreds of pages apart) and thinking about it for years on end have convinced themselves that it's more "obvious" than it really is.

My dad just started reading the series and I asked him if he'd figured it out and he had no idea what I was talking about. Same with one of my friends who's been reading it. Once I explained the clues and evidence, then they said, "Oh yeah, that makes sense ..." but they hadn't come up with it on their own. We're used to hashing it out and dissecting it, but I'm willing to bet that there are a LOT of more casual readers for whom the revelation will be somewhat of a surprise.

[zalim]

Well then we will see what happens it would be great if jon really is son of R and L but for now we arent even sure if jon is going to be there in next book.

I dont trust GRRM at all !! after the death of Ned anything is possible.I really hope that Jon somhow is still alive otherwise the whole series is ruined.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Well then we will see what happens it would be great if jon really is son of R and L but for now we arent even sure if jon is going to be there in next book.

I dont trust GRRM at all !! after the death of Ned anything is possible.I really hope that Jon somhow is still alive otherwise the whole series is ruined.

Jon's not dead, or at least, he's not going to stay dead.

[Alia of the knife]

Well then we will see what happens it would be great if jon really is son of R and L but for now we arent even sure if jon is going to be there in next book.

I dont trust GRRM at all !! after the death of Ned anything is possible.I really hope that Jon somhow is still alive otherwise the whole series is ruined.

Don't worry, Jon will come back "a la Dany" after they attempt to burn his body, either to keep him from turning into a Walker, or to hide the evidence he was "murdered."

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. :)

[zmandacorrupt]

Don't worry, Jon will come back "a la Dany" after they attempt to burn his body, either to keep him from turning into a Walker, or to hide the evidence he was "murdered."

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. :)

Why would fire resurrect him? My money is on Melissandre this time, we all know Thoros was able to resurrect people, why shouldn't Melissandre?

[zalim]

Don't worry, Jon will come back "a la Dany" after they attempt to burn his body, either to keep him from turning into a Walker, or to hide the evidence he was "murdered."

Thats my story, and I'm sticking to it. :)

oh well if jon is half targ, fire shoudnt hurt him if he has " dragon " in him but curiour why job got burned whe he was defending lord commander from walkers? i mean dragon bloods arent supposed to get hurt by fire like dan

If he is a son of R who was like favourite of so many lords and commoner and who was considerd a true dragon , how come his son who is offcourse very honourable

and kind and is very much like DAN in many ways get burned?

[corbon]

oh well if jon is half targ, fire shoudnt hurt him if he has " dragon " in him but curiour why job got burned whe he was defending lord commander from walkers? i mean dragon bloods arent supposed to get hurt by fire like dan

If he is a son of R who was like favourite of so many lords and commoner and who was considerd a true dragon , how come his son who is offcourse very honourable

and kind and is very much like DAN in many ways get burned?

Listen closely, I vill say zis only vun hundred touzand times.

Targ's are not immune to fire. Dany's was a one off unique magical event. GRRM has said so himself.

Some targs appear to have a high heat tolerance, but that is all.

Viserys, Dany's full brother, died from heat.

[zalim]

Listen closely, I vill say zis only vun hundred touzand times.

Targ's are not immune to fire. Dany's was a one off unique magical event. GRRM has said so himself.

Some targs appear to have a high heat tolerance, but that is all.

Viserys, Dany's full brother, died from heat.

but she is also immune to dragon fire !!

when drogon attacked he attacked her as well yet she suvived his fires and didnt get burned anywhere even tho her clothes were on fire as well !!

offcourse not all targs are immune but only the ones with "dragon blood" in them !! her brotherd died she even thought that herself that fire cant hurt a true dragon

i mean what makes her a dragon? her honour? her nature? what makes her special? she is just like aegon the aegon the conqueror and his sisters !!

Not all Targs are immune just like not all starks are wargs but most of them are (that because of wilding blood in them) no one from other nobel houses in westeros have this ability only starks do or the wildlings the reason? starks line merged with wildlings long time ago same goes for targs many are just normal humans but many

also have this ability to resist fire... some are made idiotic like mad king and some are great lords and ladys like Dan and her elder brother rhaegar( ppl loved him and called him true dragon as well).

[The GRRumbler]

Its amazing.. people, what you WANT to happen in the series is not the same as what WILL happen

and Jon is dead anyway...

ps: i know that he can comeback somehow but as of this point right now, he is dead.

[corbon]

but she is also immune to dragon fire !!

when drogon attacked he attacked her as well yet she suvived his fires and didnt get burned anywhere even tho her clothes were on fire as well !!

Read it again carefully. Drogon did not (successfully) attack her with dragon fire.

She jumped into the pit and ran to him.

He beat his wings a a cloud of hot red sand blew up which she stumbled into choking.

He snapped, she said "no" and his teeth closed inches from her face.

She stumbled on a corpse and fell on her arse.

He roared, and has very hot breath, not enough for her hair to be set alight, but it was not dragonfire. She looked down his gaping maw through the roar.

He roared again and the skin on her face blistered - again, not dragonfire, just very hot breath.

He snapped his teeth at her again and she lashed him with the whip.

She whipped his belly and he tried to spit black fire at her (that is the dragonfire) but she darted underneath and whipped him again yelling "get down".

He roared and beat his wings a couple of times then folded down.

She jumped on and flew off.

Barristan thought her hair was aflame while she whipped drogon, and perhaps it was. But that was just form the hot roaring breath, not dragonfire. which she ducked.

And she did suffer burns. When we next see her her burns were healing and blisters were broken. Her palms were weeping (burns from holding on to the dragon during flight?) She thinks the fire burned away her hair but otherwise did not touch her - that seems to be the same hot breath that Barristan watched - which also blistered her face.

Summary: Dany does appear to have a very high tolerance for heat but does suffer some effects (except at the hatching event, which GRRM has specifically said was unique and magical) and has not been subjected to dragonfire yet.

[Alia of the knife]

This ENTIRE enterprise is speculative, (unless some of you have Martins notes).

This is Martins work, and he will do as he pleases, absolutely.

The event with Dany was also to highlight that she was unique, so are we to believe that with all the press Jon has been given, that he is not unique as well? He may be the most powerful Warg as yet, but he doesn't even realize it.

Besides, he may not have even died from his wounds. My mom was a Nurse in the ICU on the night shift, and on a Friday, or Saturday, you'd not believe what rolled through those doors, and people lived.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

but she is also immune to dragon fire !!

when drogon attacked he attacked her as well yet she suvived his fires and didnt get burned anywhere even tho her clothes were on fire as well !!

offcourse not all targs are immune but only the ones with "dragon blood" in them !! her brotherd died she even thought that herself that fire cant hurt a true dragon

i mean what makes her a dragon? her honour? her nature? what makes her special? she is just like aegon the aegon the conqueror and his sisters !!

Not all Targs are immune just like not all starks are wargs but most of them are (that because of wilding blood in them) no one from other nobel houses in westeros have this ability only starks do or the wildlings the reason? starks line merged with wildlings long time ago same goes for targs many are just normal humans but many

also have this ability to resist fire... some are made idiotic like mad king and some are great lords and ladys like Dan and her elder brother rhaegar( ppl loved him and called him true dragon as well).

Targs are not immune to fire. What happened with Dany on the funeral pyre was a one-time thing. Viserys died from molten gold. Aegon and his grandson died in what's assumed to be a fire at Summerhall. Another Targ died from drinking wildfire. They are not immune. And Drogon wasn't actively trying to incinerate Dany; if I recall he was just breathing normally and even that was enough to singe her. If he wanted her to burn, she probably would have.

[kephv]

And Drogon wasn't actively trying to incinerate Dany; if I recall he was just breathing normally and even that was enough to singe her. If he wanted her to burn, she probably would have.

He was. Her hair was burned off again, and her hands had burn blisters on them.

[kissdbyfire]

This ENTIRE enterprise is speculative, (unless some of you have Martins notes).

This is Martins work, and he will do as he pleases, absolutely.

The event with Dany was also to highlight that she was unique, so are we to believe that with all the press Jon has been given, that he is not unique as well? He may be the most powerful Warg as yet, but he doesn't even realize it.

Besides, he may not have even died from his wounds. My mom was a Nurse in the ICU on the night shift, and on a Friday, or Saturday, you'd not believe what rolled through those doors, and people lived.

Exactly. I don't think he died; I'm sure he was injured, but there are several factors that would have had an impact on the severity of wounds - to name a few:

- the severe cold

- the layers upon layers of smallclothes, boiled leather, chainmail, wool, cloak, etc.

These two above are a certainty; and I'll even add a probable one as well: the perpetrators were reluctant.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Exactly. I don't think he died; I'm sure he was injured, but there are several factors that would have had an impact on the severity of wounds - to name a few:

- the severe cold

- the layers upon layers of smallclothes, boiled leather, chainmail, wool, cloak, etc.

These two above are a certainty; and I'll even add a probable one as well: the perpetrators were reluctant.

That's my thinking, too. It's not that he'll have died and come back; he won't have died at all. We've had allusions to the preserving power of the cold, and extreme cold can restrict blood flow, making it harder for him to bleed to death. There are other people there who could or would attempt to give him medical care.