U.S. Politics XXX - Should the voting age be 17?

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Polls are outdated and antiquated now a days. There are no reason for them.

This is perhaps marking me as an old dude, and I'm curious as to whether Ormond may feel the same.

I think there is some value in terms of community, the political process, etc., of people actually getting out of their homes and going to a polling place to vote. It is a right that deserves more reverence than just clicking the button of a mouse.

[WrathOfTinyKittens]

Online voting is cool until 4chan hears about it, at which point Tits McJiggle will become our duly elected president.

I'm against mandatory voting but in favor of making it a paid federal holiday. If more people are off work, more will vote, but still only those that feel the call of civic duty.

Come to think of it, perhaps a short history or politics quiz written by some neutral organization should be required to vote. No pass, no ballot.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

I'm somewhere in between. While I agree that there's something about going to the polling place, I also love the option of being able to mail in your vote. I think that a lot of people will still elect to do the former even when the latter is available, but I know that in the case of the state of Oregon, the option to mail in your ballot is available, and it seems to have gone really well.

I really worry about the fraud. In my state, you're not supposed to get an absentee ballot unless you request one. A bunch of my neighbors have gotten them without ever making such a request. Vote, dip your thumb in the ink, and count'em up.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Nope, I have to disagree there. Gotta have some other method, or you are disenfranchising a bunch of people, and I don't just mean ex-pats like me. Sick is one thing (though ewwww, talk about germ-spreading), but what if you're genuinely housebound? Working 12-hour days and can't afford to take the day/time off? A mandated voting day would be one thing, but even then a bunch of business would still be open, I'm sure. Or other businesses would take advantage of the "time off" to do a bunch of maintenance or whatever else they'd do after hours. And that only helps those physically able to get to the polling places anyway.

[Ormond]

I'm somewhere in between. While I agree that there's something about going to the polling place, I also love the option of being able to mail in your vote. I think that a lot of people will still elect to do the former even when the latter is available, but I know that in the case of the state of Oregon, the option to mail in your ballot is available, and it seems to have gone really well.

I think I'd agree with the above. I think polling places should be available, but there also should be a mail-in option. I have no problem with absentee ballots being available for the ill or infirm -- I'd love it if we had a system where poll workers could go to the homes of such persons to have them cast their votes on election day, but at this time our government isn't going to shell out the money required to pay for that sort of system.

I think that it would take many more resources for there to be massive fraud in a system that involves paper ballots, whether cast at a polling place or sent in by mail, than one which has votes only recorded electronically. I think marking your vote on a scanner sheet is by far the best way. Then votes can be counted quickly by the computers, but you have a paper trail and can do a hand recount of the ballots later if need be. (Yes, Florida in 2000 certainly proved that filling in little circles with a number two pencil is much better than punch cards.)

I just really want there to be some "paper trail" in case of recounts or fraud accusations. I do not trust purely electonic voting. I see that as being able to be manipulated by one really clever computer programmer with a couple of pushes of buttons. Fraud in a system with a paper trail, though possible, would have to involve many more people and much more time and resources, and so is less likely just for logistical reasons.

[The Anti-Targ]

No, it should be 21.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

FLOW,

I would go to jail before I would accept a voting mandate, unless I can vote NoTA and it has impact.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

FLOW,

I would go to jail before I would accept a voting mandate, unless I can vote NoTA and it has impact.

Oh hell, I wasn't talking about mandatory voting. I was just saying that if you choose to vote, you should go to the polls to do it. I'm sorry if my post was misleading on that.

[alguien]

Make it a federal holiday if need be.

I could get behind that idea.

[Shryke]

This is perhaps marking me as an old dude, and I'm curious as to whether Ormond may feel the same.

I think there is some value in terms of community, the political process, etc., of people actually getting out of their homes and going to a polling place to vote. It is a right that deserves more reverence than just clicking the button of a mouse.

Why? The less barriers to voting, the better. I'm personally not sure about internet voting, but more mail-in ballots is a great idea.

Though making voting day a national holiday is probably the best idea for a quick, simple fix.

And Scot, afaik, mandatory voting laws in effect always include voting for "Mickey Mouse" or the like.

And even better, the "None of the above" votes actually count for something under such a system!

[Shryke]

I really worry about the fraud. In my state, you're not supposed to get an absentee ballot unless you request one. A bunch of my neighbors have gotten them without ever making such a request. Vote, dip your thumb in the ink, and count'em up.

Voting fraud of that sort is a phantom problem.

[lokisnow]

Any system that we vote in can be tampered with. Voting fraud is as old as democracy itself. I believe that we could sponsor an online election that is just as effective as one where we go to the polls. Polls are outdated and antiquated now a days. There are no reason for them.

The reason that we do not have more of a demand for this is that more people wold vote, and elections would be less predictable for those buying them.

there was a link on yglesias, i think, last week to a study that shows that cell phone cameras have reduced voting fraud by as much as 40% in African countries. People were taking photo records of their ballots or were watching/documenting the poll workers. It reminded me of Pratchett's The Truth, where the journalist makes everyone very upset by taking out his notebook and writing down everything they say. :-p

[Kosciuszko]

Online voting is cool until 4chan hears about it, at which point Tits McJiggle will become our duly elected president.

I'm against mandatory voting but in favor of making it a paid federal holiday. If more people are off work, more will vote, but still only those that feel the call of civic duty.

Come to think of it, perhaps a short history or politics quiz written by some neutral organization should be required to vote. No pass, no ballot.

Pedobear 2012!

[Commodore]

Andy Levy destroys Ann Coulter for playing the race card

Red Eye comes on at 3am and receives zero promotion, but is beating CNN primetime shows and MSNBC morning shows in the 24-54 demo

[Swift]

Andy Levy destroys Ann Coulter for playing the race card

Red Eye comes on at 3am and receives zero promotion, but is beating CNN primetime shows and MSNBC morning shows in the 24-54 demo

I like Red Eye. When I had cable I would watch it when I had trouble sleeping.

[Inigima]

As an IT professional, the idea of online voting scares me shitless. I don't even like the electronic machines we have now, for pretty much the same reasons as Ormond. My state is going back to physical ballots, and I couldn't be happier about it.

[Commodore]

As an IT professional, the idea of online voting scares me shitless. I don't even like the electronic machines we have now, for pretty much the same reasons as Ormond. My state is going back to physical ballots, and I couldn't be happier about it.

It seems like you could have electronic voting with paper receipts for verification later on. Best of both worlds.

[Shryke]

It seems like you could have electronic voting with paper receipts for verification later on. Best of both worlds.

I was appalled when I found out this wasn't the way it worked in the first place.

Like, seriously, WTF???

Andy Levy destroys Ann Coulter for playing the race card

Red Eye comes on at 3am and receives zero promotion, but is beating CNN primetime shows and MSNBC morning shows in the 24-54 demo

I'm so disappointed. I thought you were talking about the movie with Cillian Murphy and Rachel McAdams.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Voting fraud of that sort is a phantom problem.

You mean that the casting of absentee ballots by people other than the person who was supposed to cast it doesn't happen? You're kidding, right?

I'll just give you one extremely common example. There are a large number of older people with dementia or other conditions that have deprived them of cognitive thinking. Yet, they are still eligible voters who get absentee ballots. And those ballots are very often completed either by their spouse -- who is therefore really voting twice -- or by workers at the facility where that person lives, who essentially get the proxy of everyone in their care. That is completely bogus. If you don't think that happens, you need to get out more, because I've seen it myself. On more than one occasion, and at more than one facility.

[awesome possum]

Republicans have given up on trying to create jobs in the country. Instead they're back to reaffirming how much they love God to shamelessly pander to their base

Cantor has made jobs a personal mantra, hanging placards around his office that say “Are my efforts addressing job creation and the economy; are they reducing spending; and are they shrinking the size of the Federal Government while increasing and protecting liberty? If not, why am I doing it? Why are WE doing it?”

But instead of opening up the vote for some bills that may actually help create jobs, he does this:

House Majority Leader Eric Cantor’s (Va.) decision to bring to the floor a measure that “reaffirms ‘In God We Trust’ as the official motto of the United States and supports and encourages the public display of the national motto in all public buildings, public schools, and other government institutions,” according to the resolution, sponsored by Rep. Randy Forbes (R-Va.).

The sooner this douchecanoe is caught diddling interns the better.