Could Lightbringer be the Night's Watch?

[~No One~]

What we know about AA and LB is the following:

1) AA/TPTWP/the Last Hero mission is to fight the Ohers

2) He/she used a 'weapon' called Lightbringer

3) LB was forged by tempering it thrice, lastly by killing Nissa Nissa

4) The Wall was made by Bran the Builder using blood magic

What if the Wall is this magical weapon created by Bran, aka the first LC of the NW, after killing his woman. Hence why no wives in the NW. The NW represents AA, or the heritage thereof.

Bran the B tried to build the Wall three times, but the only time the magic 'stuck' was after NN's sacrifice. This magic holds today, as long as the NW stays true (per Old Nan).

The last Hero (aka Bran the Builder) struck out with companions to find out how to end the Long Night. The CotF told him how to raise the Wall.

The new Last Hero, AA 2.0, must be born of the same blood, which is why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, just in case the Long Night falls again.

Well, have at it.

ETA I know the Wall isn't hot to the touch, but there are some interesting observations from Jon's POV's:

"But on days like this, there was no mistaking it for anything but ice. On days like this, the Wall shimmered bright as a Septons crystal, every crack and crevasse limned by sunlight, as frozen rainbows danced and died behind translucent ripples."

"He watched the cracks along the Wall go from red to grey to black, from streaks of fire to rivers of black ice."

[Stannis Lives]

What we know about AA and LB is the following:

1) AA/TPTWP/the Last Hero mission is to fight the Ohers

2) He/she used a 'weapon' called Lightbringer

3) LB was forged by tempering it thrice, lastly by killing Nissa Nissa

4) The Wall was made by Bran the Builder using blood magic

What if the Wall is this magical weapon created by Bran, aka the first LC of the NW, after killing his woman. Hence why no wives in the NW. The NW represents AA, or the heritage thereof.

Bran the B tried to build the Wall three times, but the only time the magic 'stuck' was after NN's sacrifice. This magic holds today, as long as the NW stays true (per Old Nan).

The last Hero (aka Bran the Builder) struck out with companions to find out how to end the Long Night. The CotF told him how to raise the Wall.

The new Last Hero, AA 2.0, must be born of the same blood, which is why there must always be a Stark in Winterfell, just in case the Long Night falls again.

Well, have at it.

You should check out the 17 pages of this thread. Lots of good theories drawing that connection.

[Muggle]

its a neat idea, but i dont like it.

only cause i want Jon to be a bad ass running around with a sword of flame killing WW left and right.

im still convinced light bringer is Dawn

[King of Winters]

its a neat idea, but i dont like it.

only cause i want Jon to be a bad ass running around with a sword of flame killing WW left and right.

im still convinced light bringer is Dawn

Dawn is the original Lightbringer, and is also Dragonsteel. So it will have some purpose this time but it won't be the main 'weapon' Jon wields to fight the Others.

[Arya kiddin']

Dawn is the original Lightbringer, and is also Dragonsteel. So it will have some purpose this time but it won't be the main 'weapon' Jon wields to fight the Others.

I don't think Dawn fits the bill for lightbringer in any context, other than beinng a pretty sword. Lightbringer may not be a true sword, most likely it is a metaphor.

[Stannis Lives]

I don't think Dawn fits the bill for lightbringer in any context, other than beinng a pretty sword. Lightbringer may not be a true sword, most likely it is a metaphor.

Why can't lightbringer simply be one of the first Valyrian steel blades? The process wasn't perfected for many years after AA, however maybe this was one of the first examples of the process for valyrian steel and valyrian steel is effective against the Others. AA was the only one who had one in those days. His laboring for 30 days could be the Valyrian steel folding process.

[Arya kiddin']

Why can't lightbringer simply be one of the first Valyrian steel blades? The process wasn't perfected for many years after AA, however maybe this was one of the first examples of the process for valyrian steel and valyrian steel is effective against the Others. AA was the only one who had one in those days. His laboring for 30 days could be the Valyrian steel folding process.

No, Dawn is not made of Valyrian Steel. It is made of meteor metal.

[King of Winters]

I don't think Dawn fits the bill for lightbringer in any context, other than beinng a pretty sword. Lightbringer may not be a true sword, most likely it is a metaphor.

This time it probably is a metaphor but it was a real sword the first time.

Dawn is "pale as milkglass, alive with light" It brings light.

[Arya kiddin']

This time it probably is a metaphor but it was a real sword the first time.

Dawn is "pale as milkglass, alive with light" It brings light.

I still cannot believe that Dawn is LB. Dunno, a personal thing maybe. :dunno:

[Stannis Lives]

No, Dawn is not made of Valyrian Steel. It is made of meteor metal.

I know that. I don't think Dawn is LightBringer. I am simply making a different point.

[King of Winters]

I still cannot believe that Dawn is LB. Dunno, a personal thing maybe. :dunno:

At first I thought Dawn was the original Lightbringer and is Lightbringer this time. But now after this theory I think Dawn is just the original Lightbringer and NW is Lightbringer this time.

[Arya kiddin']

I know that. I don't think Dawn is LightBringer. I am simply making a different point.

Ok then, I guess. :ohwell:

[Arya kiddin']

At first I thought Dawn was the original Lightbringer and is Lightbringer this time. But now after this theory I think Dawn is just the original Lightbringer and NW is Lightbringer this time.

That is another possibility, yes.

[King of Winters]

That is another possibility, yes.

And another thing I forgot to say that would still make Dawn relevant this time as well, is if it's Dragonsteel, which the Others can't stand.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Here's my main quibble about any one sword being Lightbringer:

Is Azor Ahai wielding this sword because it's Lightbringer, or is it Lightbringer because Azor Ahai is wielding it?

Or to put it in modern terms, look at Air Force One. It's Air Force One because the president is on it; the president isn't on it because it's Air Force One. As in, the object is influenced by the identity of the person using it, not the other way around.

In which case, whatever sword Azor Ahai happens to be using when he's doing whatever it is Azor Ahai is supposed to do could, in theory, be Lightbringer. Whether it's Dawn, Oathkeeper, Longclaw or a wooden play sword. Lightbringer in that context would be recognized in hindsight and it wouldn't necessarily be possible to accurately predict its identity beforehand.

[Arya kiddin']

And another thing I forgot to say that would still make Dawn relevant this time as well, is if it's Dragonsteel, which the Others can't stand.

:agree:

[Arya kiddin']

Here's my main quibble about any one sword being Lightbringer:

Is Azor Ahai wielding this sword because it's Lightbringer, or is it Lightbringer because Azor Ahai is wielding it?

Or to put it in modern terms, look at Air Force One. It's Air Force One because the president is on it; the president isn't on it because it's Air Force One. As in, the object is influenced by the identity of the person using it, not the other way around.

In which case, whatever sword Azor Ahai happens to be using when he's doing whatever it is Azor Ahai is supposed to do could, in theory, be Lightbringer. Whether it's Dawn, Oathkeeper, Longclaw or a wooden play sword. Lightbringer in that context would be recognized in hindsight and it wouldn't necessarily be possible to accurately predict its identity beforehand.

Azor Ahai "forged" the LB. The sword comes after the person. So, the person would be chosen, the weapon may not be. That's my take on it.

[Stannis Lives]

Ok then, I guess. :ohwell:

Take my comment out of the context that you are talking about Dawn. I wasn't referring to Dawn. I was making the point that LB could simply have been the first Valyrian steel sword.

Why can't lightbringer simply be one of the first Valyrian steel blades? The process wasn't perfected for many years after AA, however maybe this was one of the first examples of the process for valyrian steel and valyrian steel is effective against the Others. AA was the only one who had one in those days. His laboring for 30 days could be the Valyrian steel folding process.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Azor Ahai "forged" the LB. The sword comes after the person. So, the person would be chosen, the weapon may not be. That's my take on it.

Right, but is it a necessity that the original Lightbringer also has to be the "new" one? And again, we only remember the original Lightbringer because of what the person did with it, surely.

[Frey family reunion]

While I agree with the part of this thread that argues against lightbringer being an actual sword, I don't see the need to fit Jon in as the second coming of Azor Ahai. It seems that Azor is a legend/hero of the followers of the red priest. He must also be recognized as a legendary person by the Valyrians as well, considering Aemon's interest in Melisandre's claims. The description of Azor and Lightbringer in action also seems to firmly put Azor as associated with fire.

My guess is Martin came up with the term Azor from the Iranian word Azar. Azar is the ninth month of the Iranian calendar the month right before winter (our November). It is also the ancient Zoroastrian word for fire. Zoasterian is an ancient Persian religion that is the basis for the R'hllor religion. A'hai is an ancient Hebrew scholar. Thus we have Azor Ahai: scholar of fire whose appearance precedes the winter. My guess is we have two primary canidates for that role: Danaerys and Tyrion.

I think the whole point of Jon is that he straddles the worlds of ice and fire. My personal belief is that Jon's role in the Azor tale fits more neatly with being "Lightbringer" then it does Azar. If you research another mystical sword of Norse religion, the sword Gram, you may find a few parallels between Jon's story arc and the arc of the sword Gramm. (hint substitute Donal Noye for Wayland the Smith, Lord Commander Mormont for Odin, the Wall for the tree Barnstokkr, Stannis for Sigmund, and the Night's Watch conspirators for the black cloaked soldier).

My guess is the next book finds Jon "broken" in two, warged into Ghost, he escapes with Val, while his body is resurrected by Melisandre as her "red sword".

Now having said that, I do find some interesting interplay between the NIght's Watch and the Red Priests that may fit within your theory. Obviously the prayers of the Red Priests have some aspects in common with the oath of the Night's Watch. The Red Priest's belief of human sacrifice might also be reflect in what may have been going on in the "kitchen" of the Nightfort. And a lot of imagery of black cloaks to red and vice versa. We have the red silk woven into Mance's black cloak, and Moqorro's red robe is exchanged for a black robe made from the Kraken's flag. (and speaking of Kraken's their legend of the Grey King as someone who brought fire from the sea sounds a bit like how the Red priests may get their start. Hint: I think the Red Priests are not technically alive.) It would be interesting if the NIght's Watch was initially made up of people with similar powers to the Red Priests, which in a battle against Others seems like a fairly good idea. Melisandre did note how much her power increased around the Wall.