Could Lightbringer be the Night's Watch?

[RedDwarf]

I think its more fitting that Lightbringer is a member of the Nights Watch and Azor Ahai is the Nights Watch .

Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all nights to come.

The vows are said by each individual in the NW which makes them all "swords" so lightbringer is potentially one among them.

Thieves,rapists,poachers etc have all been thought discipline,trained at arms,.. basically been forged into rangers/stewards/builders of the NW

AA`s sacrifice of Nissa Nissa wasnt something he wanted to do but rather something he knew he HAD to do in order to forge LB .In the same way the "swords" of the NW may want a wife but in order to be properly forged by the NW must go without one. NW members dont choose to not take a wife ,the NW vows decide that for them so its the NW thats making the sacrifice.

[RedDwarf]

Oh my word. I had looked at Azar = Azor = Lamb too, independently. It's been on my mind for a while.

Lh - azar - een could mean the - lamb - men

I came to the conclusion that if AZOR means lamb, Azor Ahai surely means Sacrificial Lamb. I can't think of any other word that would fit well with lamb. Given the 'Legend of Lightbringer' story, it certainly fits well.

Apple's suggestion that it could be lamb/wolf is plausible too. In fact i love it.

This must be from the extinct Ghiscari language, if we're getting close.

This thread is excellent BTW.

The Dothraki look down upon the Lhazareen so i think its highly unlikely that "Lamb men" would be a direct translation of the word "Lahzareen" but more likely a derogatory term used to describe them. We know Lambs and sheperding is massively important to their culture so a likely translation for Lahzareen would be "watchers" which could also tie into the NW theory.

[Frodo Stark n dwolf Gollum]

the challenge is always the same... GRRM is inconsistent...

kissdbyfire's quote - "There will come a day after a long summer when the stars bleed and the cold breath of darkness falls heavy on the world. In this dread hour a warrior shall draw from the fire a burning sword. And that sword shall be Lightbringer, the Red Sword of Heroes, and he who clasps it shall be Azor Ahai come again, and the darkness shall flee before him."

***it cannot be Dany because the comet comes in summer

Mel in ADwD,

I have seen it in the flames, read of it in ancient prophecy. When the red star bleeds and the darkness gathers, Azor Ahai shall be born again amidst smoke and salt to wake dragons out of stone. Dragonstone is the place of smoke and salt.”

***here, it suggests Dany… so, I would argue, Jon is not AA, or a bastard, but heir to Winterfell… Robb’s decree if it exists and surfaces recognizes Jon as a Stark… and does Mel / Stannis have a stone dragon or eggs from Dragonstone?

Mance glamoured as Rattleshirt...

“Lord Snow.” The wildling grinned at them through a mouth of brown and broken teeth. The ruby on his wrist glimmered in the morning light like a dim red star.

***here, it suggests Jon is AA... Mance is the red star who bleeds... if Ramsay's letter can be believed...

NW as LB is a bit flimsy as a theory...GRRM is character-centric... the NW is a device which sets boundaries and limitations like the Wall... obstacles which need to be overcome like fear or a barrier like mistrust and ignorance...

it's more plausible that Jaime is AA... driving Oathbreaker in Brienne or Cersei... or Gendry who is an actual blacksmith like AA, and slews Arya... if LB needs to be cast anew in Valyrian Steel which (as previously mentioned) is not eluded to in any visions...

BTW, if Jon were re-animated... the NW would likely mistake him for a wight... and he wouldn't get a 2nd chance to metaphorically re-forge his sword as LC... If Jon somehow survives the stabbings, why not another "greenseer" like Bran?...

Lastly, if you are juxtaposing, Red Star == Red Sun of Dorne, Dorne is bleeding... and Prince Doran will sh!t a dragon egg when he finds out about Quentyn...

NW as LB... I have an easier time accepting that GRRM said in an interview that Brienne's word was SWORD... and not She-Ra! or Shazam!

P.S. To which part of the prophecy does this part of the oath "...the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men..." belong?... IDK... maybe NW == HoJ

[Consigliere]

Here is a post by Northbound from another thread that got me thinking:

My guess would be during the Blackfrye Rebellion. But here is an interesting thought. Aemon had three, what if Jon has three times/trials to turn is back on the NW.

1) Ned's arrest/Robb riding off to war.
2) In aDwD; The Pink Letter and trying to save "Arya"
3) The Battle for the Dawn: What if the only way for him to save the people, is to turn his back once again and take up a crown. Aemon, was offered a crown once too.

I dunno.....im just rambling

AA needed three attempts to forge LB. Jon possibly turning his back on the NW three times only to return and fulfill his oath and in the process reminding the NW of it's true purpose could "forge" the NW into LB.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Here is a post by Northbound from another thread that got me thinking:

AA needed three attempts to forge LB. Jon possibly turning his back on the NW three times only to return and fulfill his oath and in the process reminding the NW of it's true purpose could "forge" the NW into LB.

That's actually pretty interesting.

[yolkboy]

After thinking about this theory for a while, maybe the NW just took those words in their vow as a homage to the original Lightbringer (as AA's sword), it's just as feasible. The song 'The Night that Ended' describes the Night's Watch defeating the Others. Mel says Azor Ahai didn't fight his war alone - he must have had people with him, and maybe links to above - NW helped AA maybe.

It's equally likely their vows were inspired by AA's sword, as it is to say the NW are Lightbringer. Likewise, not taking a wife could just as easily be a homage to the sacrifice Azor Ahai made, rather than meaning the celibacy equates to Nissa Nissa in the prophesies/tales. Perhaps AA was the original Lord Commander, and maybe they made their vows in his spirit, as never to forget him or the battle against the Others.

The basis of this idea is that I am the sword in the darkness.. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn is in their vows. Yet so is - (I am) the horn that wakes the sleepers.

Does this mean NW is the horn of Joramun too, by the same logic? Or did they just make their vows inspired by weapons used to fight the Others in the original Long Night.

Overall, I love this concept but I personally think it's more likely the vows are a hint to the collaboration of AA and the first generation NW.

[Consigliere]

That's actually pretty interesting.

This might be a stretch but maybe the three attempts have already occurred:

1. Jon attempting to join Robb only to return

2. Jon integrating himself into the Wilding group only to return

3. Jon attempting to ride south to confront Ramsay

After the Ides of Marsh, we are not sure of Jon's fate. It's possible (or very likely) the "dragon" could awaken and Jon will be more focused and determined to fight the others. This would depend on what Jon experiences during his incapacity or what BranRaven shows him. I simply don't believe that the NW will fall apart completely. Some remnant will remain and I think that these remaining members will be loyal to Jon, realise the true purpose of the NW and as a result become LB.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

Dany kills her love, Drogon, her child is killed and so is the witch; out of it, Drogon ( Lightbringer ) / The other dragons, are forged.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Dany kills her love, Drogon, her child is killed and so is the witch; out of it, Drogon ( Lightbringer ) / The other dragons, are forged.

This is a thread about the Night's Watch, not Dany.

This might be a stretch but maybe the three attempts have already occurred:

1. Jon attempting to join Robb only to return

2. Jon integrating himself into the Wilding group only to return

3. Jon attempting to ride south to confront Ramsay

After the Ides of Marsh, we are not sure of Jon's fate. It's possible (or very likely) the "dragon" could awaken and Jon will be more focused and determined to fight the others. This would depend on what Jon experiences during his incapacity or what BranRaven shows him. I simply don't believe that the NW will fall apart completely. Some remnant will remain and I think that these remaining members will be loyal to Jon, realise the true purpose of the NW and as a result become LB.

I can see that. And it would be after the third attempt that really "forges" Lightbringer, as in, separates the worthwhile core of the Watch from the dregs.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

This is a thread about the Night's Watch, not Dany.

I can see that. And it would be after the third attempt that really "forges" Lightbringer, as in, separates the worthwhile core of the Watch from the dregs.

Forgive me.

No, I don't think the Night's Watch is Lightbringer. It is a legend that probably doesn't even exist. There was probably a guy, with super skills with a sword that killed his lover.

[Consigliere]

Forgive me.

No, I don't think the Night's Watch is Lightbringer. It is a legend that probably doesn't even exist. There was probably a guy, with super skills with a sword that killed his lover.

Sorry, I just don't buy that one guy with a "magic" sword defeated The Others. The NW being LB and AA being the first LC seems far more plausible to me. Every army needs a leader afterall. The fact that The Wall, a 700ft tall and 300 mile wide monstrosity, exists tells me that this is simply not a legend.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Sorry, I just don't buy that one guy with a "magic" sword defeated The Others. The NW being LB and AA being the first LC seems far more plausible to me. Every army needs a leader afterall. The fact that The Wall, a 700ft tall and 300 mile wide monstrosity, exists tells me that this is simply not a legend.

That and the fact that "The Night That Ended" is explicitly about the Night's Watch riding to meet the Others in the original Battle for the Dawn. We're flat-out told they played a part in it; all that's missing is the actual lyrics of the song.

[yolkboy]

Sorry, I just don't buy that one guy with a "magic" sword defeated The Others. The NW being LB and AA being the first LC seems far more plausible to me. Every army needs a leader afterall. The fact that The Wall, a 700ft tall and 300 mile wide monstrosity, exists tells me that this is simply not a legend.

I dont think anyone's saying AA did it alone, Mel says he didnt do it alone. AA being the leader of the original NW does't exclude the possibility that AA had a magic sword, and that the NW worded their vows and took a vow of celibacy in homage to Lightbringer as a sword, and nissa Nissa as the sacrifice.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

Sorry, I just don't buy that one guy with a "magic" sword defeated The Others. The NW being LB and AA being the first LC seems far more plausible to me. Every army needs a leader afterall. The fact that The Wall, a 700ft tall and 300 mile wide monstrosity, exists tells me that this is simply not a legend.

Perhaps not. But, I'm saying the sword would've been a sword. I don't think it alone was what destroyed the Others, as, they were only pushed back! ;) Maybe they have Lightbringer?

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Perhaps not. But, I'm saying the sword would've been a sword. I don't think it alone was what destroyed the Others, as, they were only pushed back! ;) Maybe they have Lightbringer?

I think it's the opposite -- the "sword" is not a literal sword. It's metaphorical.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

The Night's Watch was founded after / during the wall was being built, which was after the Long Night.

[yolkboy]

The Night's Watch was founded after / during the wall was being built, which was after the Long Night.

The song 'the nights ended' alluded to them being around before then. Also in the vows, it's we are the watchers on the walls, hinting it's a different walls they were originally watching.

[Consigliere]

I dont think anyone's saying AA did it alone, Mel says he didnt do it alone. AA being the leader of the original NW does't exclude the possibility that AA had a magic sword, and that the NW worded their vows and took a vow of celibacy in homage to Lightbringer as a sword, and nissa Nissa as the sacrifice.

That is certainly possible. I am of the opinion that LB is not a literal sword but rather a metaphor meaning weapon. I did not mean for my comment to come across as as fact and I am certainly open to other plausible explanations.

Perhaps not. But, I'm saying the sword would've been a sword. I don't think it alone was what destroyed the Others, as, they were only pushed back! ;) Maybe they have Lightbringer?

If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. :) Although I consider myself fluent, english is a third language for me. It was your post stating "It is a legend that probably doesn't even exist" that bugged me. The mere existence of the NW and the Wall tells me that this is not just a legend.

[Rickeen Baratheon]

"Thousands and thousands of years ago, a winter fell that was cold and hard and endless beyond all memory of man. There came a night that lasted a generation, and kings shivered and died in their castles even as the swineherds in their hovels. Women smothered their children rather than see them starve, and cried, and felt their tears freeze on their cheeks. In that darkness, the Others came for the first time, They were cold things, dead things, that hated iron and fire and the touch of the sun, and every creature with hot blood in its veins. They swept over holdfasts and cities and kingdoms, felled heroes and armies by the score, riding their pale dead horses and leading hosts of the slain. All the swords of men could not stay their advance, and even maidens and suckling babes found no pity in them. They hunted the maids through frozen forests, and fed their dead servants on the flesh of human children. Now these were the days before the Andals came, and long before the women fled across the narrow sea from the cities of the Rhoyne, and the hundred kingdoms of those times were the kingdoms of the First Men, who had taken these lands from the children of the forest. Yet here and there in the fastness of the woods the children still lived in their wooden cities and hollow hills, and the faces in the trees kept watch. So as cold and death filled the earth, the last hero determined to seek out the children, in the hopes that their ancient magics could win back what the armies of men had lost. He set out into the dead lands with a sword, a horse, a dog, and a dozen companions. For years he searched, until he despaired of ever finding the children of the forest in their secret cities. One by one his friends died, and his horse, and finally even his dog, and his sword froze so hard the blade snapped when he tried to use it. And the Others smelled the hot blood in him, and came silent on his trail, stalking him with packs of pale white spiders big as hounds-" - Old Nan's story.

The 'Last Hero' could be AA, or someone else of importance. But I don't believe that the Night's Watch at the time, if they existed. As I said in my post above, they were probably formed after the wall was built if i recall correctly. They killed whole armies, until one day, AA had a sword that could defeat them and we can assume, more were made, but he was the first. Now, some interesting things;

"They hunted the maids through frozen forests" Sounds like what Ramsay does.

What I take from this is that the Last Hero found the children, eventually and they helped him forge a weapon to defeat the Other's. The story could've been made up after.

Yeah, think you may be right. But it seems conflicted information. It says they were founded after the Long Night, but, then were present during that battle with the Others. D:

[Rickeen Baratheon]

That is certainly possible. I am of the opinion that LB is not a literal sword but rather a metaphor meaning weapon. I did not mean for my comment to come across as as fact and I am certainly open to other plausible explanations.

If I misunderstood your post, I apologise. :) Although I consider myself fluent, english is a third language for me. It was your post stating "It is a legend that probably doesn't even exist" that bugged me. The mere existence of the NW and the Wall tells me that this is not just a legend.

I believe Lightbringer was Obsidian, personally, and it was a sword. This person rallied those armies to finally push back the Others. Lightbringer isn't the Night's Watch, but they were given Obsidian Daggers every year by the CoF.

At Castle Black Samwell Tarly tells Jon Snow that he found one account of the Long Night that spoke of the Last Hero slaying Others with a blade of dragonsteel. Supposedly they could not stand against it. Jon wonders if dragonsteel refers to Valyrian steel.

After having pushed back the threat, the Wall was built by Brandon the Builder in order to protect the Seven Kingdoms, should the Others ever return. During the Age of Heroes it was also recorded by the Night's Watch that the children of the forest gave the Night's Watch a hundred obsidian daggers every year.