Eyron Posted November 28, 2011 Share Posted November 28, 2011 Dear Eira, I completely agree. There can be a new force, made up of Wildlings, women, new recruits and whoever else wants to join in the fight. But: why would that force be the equivalent of the Night's Watch as opposed to any other armed force? Just that they would follow the (former) LC? That they would swear the NW oath: aka I will take no wife, father no children and all that crap? (I don't see the Wildlings doing that, btw) Is that even necessary for a fighting force against the Others? (I guess, it could make a difference...)I'd be very content with it as long as they cut the above mentioned crap. As long as they hold to these vows as they are at the moment, I sincerely hope that the NW will be doomed. I see the NW as an irredemably rotten institution. It doesn't have a chance to work any better in the long run either if they don't change fundamentally. And that change for me involves more then to turn them into an effective fighting force. They are now made to suppress men's best instincts, like love and compassion which imho is not necessary to fight. Why should the chance to enjoy human happiness be a deterrent to their task? Isn't love one of the (few) forces that can drive human beings to sacrifice? So why not allow it? I can see only political reasons there.But if all that's to change, you practically wouldn't know this organization for the NW anymore, they would just be.... Jon's supporters maybe? The fellowship of AA? :DI guess that's my main argument against the NW as Lightbringer in a nutshell. While it's a compelling theory, I don't think NW as an institution deserves the honour. And if it were to change, it wouldn't be the NW anymore. So in the end it's probably a question of what exactly defines the "true" NW.Ah well, then I see why you are opposed to this idea :)I agree it's a matter of definition, I think the current NW is nothing like it was supposed to be and that it is doomed, and a new "true" NW will come from the ruins, it would still be the NW, just as it was intended. The NW was probably very different in the beginning, and probably had a different purpose too. I happen to think they are supposed to protect the Wall from both sides, you may have read my theory on that...The way I see it, the current NW is doomed because they did not respect their commander, their democratically chosen leader, it is completely different from not respecting an appointed officer. Either way they should have made a democratic choice by vote to replace him if they saw him unfit. By killing Jon (or by trying to, heh) they ruined the faith in the system. And that is besides the fact that they were fighting wildlings for a couple of thousand years, for this they had good reason it seems, even if the Realm probably cast the first stone, so to speak.I don't think the vow itself is the main problem, but all the crap rules that have been implemented around it. I don't like the chastity oath particularily and I think that it is counterproductive but maybe that part was the "Nissa Nissa" deal, a sacrifice, so that they could have the CotF's magic infused in the wall. Magic does seem to require sacrifice of some sort. I can also imagine that the oath have been changed for political reasons, the story of the Night's King taking an Other wife (perhaps she was not an Other at all) may have caused them to add the "take no wife" part. In that case the sacrifice was something else, entirely possible to me.About the new members of that NW, a few of the free folk have joined already and swore the oath, a few of the new recruits from the realm swore before the weirwood too, and then there is Jon's friends, and some of the older men at the Wall that all could be part of it. I am not convinced that swearing the oath is the only way to be a part of it, but if they want to be they may have to swear it. An Other invasion would convince a few more I think.I am not certain that Jon will be the new LC to form this NW, I am actually dreading that it will be Stannis... But there are too many things that speak for Jon, and too much that speaks against Stannis so I am sticking with Jon. He has the ability to unite and already a fanbase within the NW, the wildlings and maybe the rest of the North too :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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