Former Penn State Football Coach Sexual Abuse Coverup

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

I can't find anything that explicitly states Paterno knew about any incidents before 2002. However, since the 1998 case got as far as (university?) police investigation, I find it unlikely that they wouldn't have talked to him as Sandusky's boss and the man nominally in charge of the area where the alleged incident(s) took place. "Unlikely" isn't "impossible", though.

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/7212054/key-dates-penn-state-nittany-lions-sex-abuse-case

[Kalbear]

Yes. The child's mom came to the organization and told JoePa specifically about an incident that involved fondling of the kid's butt and some other fairly ugly (but not absolutely explicit) items. JoePa asked Sandusky about it and he said it was a big misunderstanding. End result is that he resigned.

So JoePa knew. Period.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

In that case, defer to Kal's info. ESPN is incomplete.

[Kalbear]

On the 1998 incident from ESPN: that's where it comes from:

Victim 6 is taken into the locker rooms and showers when he is 11 years old. When Victim 6 is dropped off at home, his hair is wet from showering with Sandusky. His mother reports the incident to the university police, who investigate.

JoePa also heard about it at the time. End result was the investigation and no charges filed, despite the basic admission of guilt from Sandusky (seriously, District Attorney, WHAT THE FUCK?) but this was the reason that he stepped down.

[litechick]

I'm not sure that is part of the man code. If you catch your buddy beating off you are more likely to tell everyone, then keep it a solemn secret. If they have weird kinks you flip them shit, not ignore them as a sign of respect. If they rape children the man code dictates you tell the police, I think.

I was speaking of situations where there is respect. Sure, of course you mock those whom you do not respect.

[Edda van Heefmstra Ruston]

Right, I just meant that that particular timeline never explicitly mentions JoePa knowing about it. They've covered that Sandusky admitted it to the mom and the two listening cops, but not definitively that JoePa was involved in the investigation. (For that point, see my previous post where I find that exceedingly unlikely, meaning that I personally absolutely think JoePa knew about the allegations.)

[Hooplehead]

On the 1998 incident from ESPN: that's where it comes from:

JoePa also heard about it at the time. End result was the investigation and no charges filed, despite the basic admission of guilt from Sandusky (seriously, District Attorney, WHAT THE FUCK?) but this was the reason that he stepped down.

This is the DA that has since gone missing and been confirmed dead....

[jurble]

The rally-riot last night had thousands of students fanatically screaming their undying support for JoePa. So the student body still seems to support Joe, but my physiology prof. thinks JoePa isn't going last past Friday when the Board of Trustees meets.

[Swordfish]

The rally-riot last night had thousands of students fanatically screaming their undying support for JoePa. So the student body still seems to support Joe, but my physiology prof. thinks JoePa isn't going last past Friday when the Board of Trustees meets.

I think you are likely correct.

I don't see how the university can allow him to stay at this point.

[Kalbear]

You'd think that, but I think they're basically punting. They're setting up a special council to talk about this and what they should do, and they'll start to meet on Friday. I think folks here really underestimate how much power JoePa has, even with this.

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

Yikes. Well, crap, if the 1999 allegations were known, 2002 is no excuse for anyone, including Paterno, not to contact the police immediately. Paterno shouldn't be permitted to coach this weekend, much less finish the season.

[Swordfish]

You'd think that, but I think they're basically punting. They're setting up a special council to talk about this and what they should do, and they'll start to meet on Friday. I think folks here really underestimate how much power JoePa has, even with this.

You could be right. We'll see.

I think the nature of the issue and allegations though might jsut prove too much for even JoePa has. And my impression is that his support has been waning the past decade a bit as well.

Still, nothing would surprise me at this point.

Yikes. Well, crap, if the 1999 allegations were known, 2002 is no excuse for anyone, including Paterno, not to contact the police immediately. Paterno shouldn't be permitted to coach this weekend, much less finish the season.

This is what most of us have been saying for pages now.

Glad you are caught up.

[Greywolf2375]

Don't think this has been linked yet. it's a Mark Madden article from April of this year, before the grand jury info came out last week.

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=141&f=2455&t=8229714

[Former Lord of Winterfell]

This is what most of us have been saying for pages now.

Glad you are caught up.

See, some of us don't live in Happy Valley, or have family/friends there, or otherwise have the relevant information on hand. Thanks to Kalbear for providing information rather than snark.

[Jaxom 1974]

You'd think that, but I think they're basically punting. They're setting up a special council to talk about this and what they should do, and they'll start to meet on Friday. I think folks here really underestimate how much power JoePa has, even with this.

Well, if this case goes in the direction it needs to go, it might be taken out of their hands. They've been talking about this for the better part of the day, across three separate shows, on WSCR today. Even when the Bears or Cubs or Hawks demand some attention because it's a weekly scheduled segment, the discussion continues to return to this.

Today it's been mentioned, and I have no confirmation to post, that at least on one occasion, Sandusky travelled with a minor across state lines. That opens the door for some Federal investigations doesn't it? If it were to reach those proportions, I'd think it's only a matter of time before there's more and more revealed. There will be more arrests from this, up to and including, JoePa before all is said and done. That's just a presumption on my part though...

[Kalbear]

Yeah.

Ultimately I think that if people understand the timeline and who knew or could have known what that it's a very simple case. There are indications as early as 1994 of this guy doing inappropriate things. He was dismissed from the team in 1999 at the age of 55 - a completely prime time for coaching from a person who was responsible largely for the two national championships the school had gotten. Why would he do that of his own free will?

In 2000 a janitor witnesses Sandusky raping another child. He reports it to a superior, but doesn't report it to the police.

Then in 2002 he is first-hand witnessed by someone as anally raping a child. And that witness doesn't go to the cops until 2010 when being asked by a grand jury. he tells his supervisors who also do not go to the police. This is a failure at the institutional level of Penn State - and even if JoePa doesn't know anything he is responsible. He is the most responsible person there.

Then the 2nd mile organization gets repeated violation notices from 2002 to 2007. Again, nothing happens.

Then Sandusky, in 2007, brings a kid to a Penn State practice. With McQueary (the GA, now coach) and JoePa present. I can vaguely think that JoePa might not know; okay, I can't, but let's go with that for a second. How in the world does a guy who actually saw him anally rape a child right in front of him react when he sees him walk into practice with a 10 year old?

WHAT. THE. FUCK.

[Howdyphillip]

From the equivalent of a middle-rung manager? Not unless the crime is in progress. The eye witness should have called the police immediately, of course, but if it is some time afterwards, then the correct thing to do would be to pass the information up to the people whose job it is to deal with such situations.

If a middle rung manager tells you that he saw someone in your organization ass fuck a kid in the shower, then the people who "deal with such situation" are the police, and child protective services... Not your boss. No mater what time the ass fucking took place

[kairparavel]

You'd think that, but I think they're basically punting. They're setting up a special council to talk about this and what they should do, and they'll start to meet on Friday. I think folks here really underestimate how much power JoePa has, even with this.

Exactly. Because it isn't like the grand jury investigation has been going on for the past three years. Clearly not enough time to meet, work out options and contingency plans.

[Swordfish]

See, some of us don't live in Happy Valley, or have family/friends there, or otherwise have the relevant information on hand. Thanks to Kalbear for providing information rather than snark.

See, some of us, when we don't have the information at hand, avoid drawing conclusions or doggedly trying to refute arguments from other people who do have that information.

Alternately, we attempt to get that information ourselves before diving into a conversation and being generally disagreeable and obtuse.

People have been telling you for pages what is going on here, and you've been mostly disregarding it, or at least downplaying it, without bothering to check it out for yourself.

In the time you spent essentially minimizing Paterno's culpability here, you could have easily found out the information provided by kalbear for yourself.

Instead you continued to stand your ground, despite apparently being aware that you didn't really know what was going on.

Even the timeline of events that you are now thanking kalbear for has basically been posted before in this thread.

i strongly doubt you'd appreciate that kind of response from someone else, yes?

[Altherion]

If a middle rung manager tells you that he saw someone in your organization ass fuck a kid in the shower, then the people who "deal with such situation" are the police, and child protective services... Not your boss. No mater what time the ass fucking took place

This is not what the law says and it's written that way for a reason. It does not apply to this situation because Paterno had to have known of the prior allegations, but in general, if somebody at work comes to you claiming to be an eye witness to a crime that happened some time ago and yet was not reported to the police by this alleged eye witness, it makes more sense to take the matter to your superiors than to go to the police on behalf of the alleged eye witness.