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RCfan

Reflections on ASOS - SPOILERS

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Hi. New to the forum, but so freaked out - in a good way! - by the end of ASOS that I had to seek out other fans. Please forgive me if I ramble. :)

I don't know how to mark for SPOILERS, so please don't read if you haven't finished the book.

First of all - Littlefinger is just evil! Wow. I stayed up way too late to finish this last night and as I read Lysa's confession of what truly happened to Jon Arryn, I sat straight up and said "Holy Sh#$!" at 12:30 a.m. I did not see that coming. I think Petyr Baelish may be one of the most evil characters I've ever encountered in literature...and I can't wait to see what he does next.

Sansa - Poor girl. Ugh. It does seem that she just sits and lets things happen around her. However, the point is made over and over of how gentle natured she is and well, she is afraid. Everyone she has known and loved has disappeared and she is left at the Mercy of Joffrey and Cersei. I think she does show great strength in her marriage to Tyrion. She realizes that things could have been so very much worse for her and tries to play the dutiful wife. Yet, you cannot fault her for walling herself off from him emotionally. We also must remember that she is the one Stark child that no longer has her wolf. Even though the other's have lost theirs at points in the story, they are still alive and able to connect with the children. There is deep symbolism in that.

Arya - I must admit, I am having such a hard time with her story. After the Red Wedding, I just couldn't take it anymore. She's only 10. I was glad, however, that she wound up with the Hound. I hope we are not done with him in this story. I have seen a glimmer of hope for his character since the end of Game of Thrones and his rather gentle (for the Hound anyway) warning to Sansa that she should not anger Joffrey. Could he wind up being a hero in this tale? I'd like to see. As for Arya, really hope she finds her way to Jon, but I fear that is a long way off if ever.

Catelyn and the Red Wedding - Well, I didn't see that coming. I had to put the book down for a couple of days after that. It brought tears to my eyes and butterflies to my stomach. This poor woman lost everything only to be butchered by the Late Walter Frey. Really?! She did make mistakes. Many of them. Her treatment of Jon Snow in GOT left a permanent bad taste in my mouth, but she was a mother and wife who lost everything and everyone. Her tragedies are completely out of her control. The scene of the Red Wedding will live with me for a long time. The feelings of dread as she realizes what is happening. Her screaming at Walter Frey and begging for her child and last but not least, "not my hair, Ned always loved my hair." Wow!

Tyrion - Ok, I really like this character, and love every bit of his story, with one exception. His marriage to Sansa. It just felt icky, which I feel was the point, but I didn't like it with this character. I know he abstained from consummating the marriage, but only because she did not "want" him. I have just always felt that Tyrion had more character than that and would have waited because she was a child. Aside from that, however, he is awesome. The killing of Tywin was brilliant. It was a nice bit of justice to see him do that after all of the abuse his father heaped upon him. I enjoyed the last line of that chapter as well. ;)

Joffrey - Well he's dead. I laughed. I've never hated a character so much. He's just awful.

Cersei - Joffrey's dead. I laughed. Hope she follows soon. She's worse.

Dany - I really hope her story ties in to the others soon. In the last two books, I have found her just exhausting. So many of these chapters seemed pointless. Even her dragons annoy me.

Davos - I like this character, but he seems very expendable. We will see.

Sam - Oh how I love Sam. He is adorable in his insecurity. I love how his lack of bravery allows him to fly under the radar and accomplish remarkable things. He is the anti-Jon Snow. Yet he is able to do just as many great things. Killing Others, staying with Mormont as he died, saving Gilly, helping Bran, and finally creating a Lord Commander. Ah, I do love Sam.

Jon Snow - Lord Commander Snow. Well, I did see that coming, but I loved it all the same. I have to admit, he is my favorite character. I enjoyed that he got a little love interest for a while. "You know nothing Jon Snow." I think he learned a lot from Ygritte and not just in that way. Lol. I love that he got to spend a little time without Ghost as he escaped the Wildlings and held the Wall. It showed that Jon was more than his wolf. He is the most like Ned of all the children. He will always do his duty. I only hope he can save his sisters and brothers at the same time.

Bran - I hope his story will get more interesting in the coming books. There is only so much shape shifting and Hodoring I can take. I was very disappointed that he and Jon did not get to meet each other at the Wall. It was just too close.

Jaime - I refuse to like this character. I just can't. I accept that he has been at his father and Cersei's mercy his whole life and look forward to seeing what he does with Tywin dead, but I just can't like him. He pushed a 7 year old out a window so he could continue sleeping with his sister. There's no coming back from that.

Ok, finally, one question...Is "Cold Hands" Benjen Stark? (Don't answer that. But, I really hope so.) AND...the Epilogue. She's alive. Silent, but alive. What will happen here?!!!!!!

Thanks for reading. I look forward to discussing.

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Hi, there! Discussion is important, since most of us devoured the books quickly. ;)

Peter Baelish has hinted being a prime player in the game since the first book. He looked like a piece before, and ASoS plainly shows us that he is a player. Maybe not one of the most evil, since Cersei is in the same universe. As for Sansa, she's the Stark that I could care less about. Her character, for now, is the most uncritical of them all.

You might need to train yourself for more Daenerys in ADWD. Her character arc has become the most grueling read for me.

As for Jaime, you don't need to like him but you have to admit that his development is one of the most interesting in the books. He is trying to leave the Kingslayer persona behind him and he is finding out if there is more to him than just being great with a sword.

All in all, I hope you continue to read the series. It gets slower in the next two books, but still a very good read.

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As for Sansa, she's the Stark that I could care less about. Her character, for now, is the most uncritical of them all.

Oops, Just realized I'm in the ASOS forums. Luckily nothing was a bit too spoilery.

AFFC/ADWD SPOILERS (don't click this OP/anyone else who hasn't read yet :3)

She's posed to take Winterfell and the Vale. How is she the most uncritical? Arya's on the other side of the world. :P

@OP: Cat was probably my favorite reveal in that book. She shows up. Don't worry. :)

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Oops, Just realized I'm in the ASOS forums. Luckily nothing was a bit too spoilery.

AFFC/ADWD SPOILERS (don't click this OP/anyone else who hasn't read yet :3)

She's posed to take Winterfell and the Vale. How is she the most uncritical? Arya's on the other side of the world. :P

@OP: Cat was probably my favorite reveal in that book. She shows up. Don't worry. :)

What I mean by uncritical is her personality and character. She is mostly reactive. She's of an age to think for herself, but Arya defeats her on that department.

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Very interesting views, and some of them are pretty much identical to what I thought of the book :) My input:

Tyrion: Regarding the whole "not bedding Sansa because she doesn't want him instead of because she's young", well, let's keep in mind that in Westeros a girl who has already had her "flowering" is a woman old enough to bed. I know this is very opposite to our own views on the matter, but considering that in Westeros girls who haven't had their flowering can even be old enough to wed (but not bed), I don't find it all that out of character for Tyrion that the thing that stops him is her attitude towards it, not her age.

Joffrey and Cersei: I lol'd. My views on it exactly. I love the fact that Cersei had to *watch*, completely helpless.

Sam: Samwell is our King, that is all :)

Jaime: All my friends think the same. I've told them little bits about his story beyond GoT, saying "He turns out not so bad, actually" and "There are some good characteristics to him, really!" and they're all like "He pushed Bran out of the window! He's a douche! Period!" Understandable, really :P

As for the epilogue, I didn't see it coming, and to think that now Cat has come back all angry and vengeful... I shudder to think what will happen.

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The bit with Cat at the end...What's that all about??? Little Finger, definitely was not expecting all that at the Eyrie, what is going to happen to Sansa now? All I can hope is that Brienne catches up with her & LF and gives him what for!

Definitely agree about Jamie, what a fascinating journey his character is on. I love the way that GRRM had me loathing him to start off with to the point where I was disgusted he even had his own chapters, yet now they are some of the most compelling! I was gutted that Tyrion lied to him though. I know the dwarf must have been upset, but I can't see what good that will do him!

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Jamie: I have to admit his development is one of the more interesting ones. I like how he gave Brienne "Oathkeeper" to protect Sansa, it was quite poetic that the sword he gave her to protect Sansa was made out of Lord Eddard's blade "Ice". He's showing some real growth.

Bran: I just hope "Coldhands" is Benjen Stark and that by some way he can get the use of his legs back. I know it's a long shot on both counts but it would be awesome.

Cersei: I hope House Lannister crumbles and that she is alive to see it happen, then Sansa gets her revenge on her when she grows a back-bone (I'm just saying)

Dany: Her chapters are excruciating...Unsullied this, mother of dragons that...yawn!

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Cersei: I hope House Lannister crumbles and that she is alive to see it happen, then Sansa gets her revenge on her when she grows a back-bone (I'm just saying)

There's not much left of the Lannisters now is there? Just Cersei & Jamie and Jamie seems to be heading to a position where he disowns his family.

Dany: Her chapters are excruciating...Unsullied this, mother of dragons that...yawn!

The one where Strong Belwas fought the champion of that city (Mereen was it) I thought that was brilliant, and then she crucified one leader for every child they crucified—go Dany!

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There's not much left of the Lannisters now is there? Just Cersei & Jamie and Jamie seems to be heading to a position where he disowns his family.

The one where Strong Belwas fought the champion of that city (Mereen was it) I thought that was brilliant, and then she crucified one leader for every child they crucified—go Dany!

Well technically Jamie's bastards (Tommen and Mycella) are Lannisters. I wonder at what point (if any) the truth about those two will ever come out

That chapter was good I'll admit

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I have to disagree about Jaime. Yes, he's done some terrible deeds in his life, but I think his POVs in a Storm of Swords shows him realizing that, admitting it to himself, laughing about it, and finally trying to make up for it. Can he ever make up for all the deeds he's done? Maybe not, but I can't fault him for trying. He's brash and irrational at the beginning of the book, but by the end, he's starting to think things through like his father or brother would. I think in the end, he'll always have more in common with Cersei than Tyrion, but I am interested in his story now. Especially with Tywin gone, I'm piqued to see what happens to the Lannisters next.

The Jon Snow and Sansa chapters at the end were just so exciting for me to read. Jon, who I almost couldn't care less for in the 2nd book, is now one of my favorite characters, and it's because of an incredible journey in Book 3. I hope he makes good use of his new position of authority. Sansa, like Jon, is fairly boring on the surface, but she also provides some of the best insight into what happens at King's Landing. And wouldn't you know it, her chapter provides you with probably the biggest bombshell of the book--like you say, Littlefinger may be one of the darkest characters in literature. I knew he was smart, but I had no idea he was that smart. Like all dark characters, he's driven by some petty injustice. I was happy to see Lysa go; she may have actually been worse than Cersei in the grand scheme of things. Hopefully Sansa gains some understanding from her struggles and doesn't mold into a Lysa or Cersei herself.

Seeing Cat at the end was really cool and shocking, but after thinking about it some more, I started to think: "Crap, does this mean Stannis will never die now?" It's kind of a strange thing to put into a grand epic story, especially where big characters can die at any time. Once it was a huge blow, but now I don't know if I can ever believe that characters are really truly dead unless their heads are chopped off (sorry Robb and Ned).

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