The northmen inside and outside Winterfell. Conspiracy? The GNC - The Grand Northern Conspiracy

[bemused]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before .. ( probably) .. but besides bringing his own food , Manderly might feel a bit nit-picky about just whose roof they are under .. He considers it the Starks' roof I'm sure , and the Boltons merely usurpers ..they haven't been living there. The poor squatters the Boltons killed had been there longer.

I think Manderly might think there's a very good chance he can expect dispensation

[Black Wolf Smith]

I don't know if this has been mentioned before .. ( probably) .. but besides bringing his own food , Manderly might feel a bit nit-picky about just whose roof they are under .. He considers it the Starks' roof I'm sure , and the Boltons merely usurpers ..they haven't been living there. The poor squatters the Boltons killed had been there longer.

I think Manderly might think there's a very good chance he can expect dispensation

I am not sure about that. I don't think he has gotten his hands dirty, even thou he brought his own food. I do think his men will either turn on the Frey's or just not be there when they are needed, make some peace with Stannis, only to return to WF and inform them Stannis is dead.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

Not sure why so many folks seem to assume that the North is really eager for Jon Snow to rule over them. It's highly doubtful many of them got to know him half as well as the readers have. Regardless, he's (supposedly) Ned's bastard, but was never rendered legitimate. Even if he had been legitimate, he's now a brother of the Night's Watch (heck, he's the bloody Lord Commander). Much as Maester Aemon wasn't even a consideration for the Iron Throne anymore after he went to the wall, Jon shouldn't be a consideration for Winterfell.

...SNIP...

Seems like lots of people are going to crazy lengths to put Jon in Winterfell..... Heck, why would you even want him there? He's not a Stark, after all. He's a Targaryen. If you find a way to relieve him of his Nights Watch duties, he's got a legitimate claim on a much bigger prize than Winterfell (well, not if Aegon is for real, but whatever. I don't think anyone expects him on the throne at the end of the series, whether 'cause he'll be dead or because he's a fake).

If Rob did legitamize Jon, and if the crown in the North means anything to the Northern lords, then they would still support Jon as King of the North. I realize there are some "if's" involved here but we simply don't have enough info to judge one way or the other, not until we see the contents of the letter Rob gave to Mage/Glover. Manderly is not stupid, and if the other lords want to honor Rob's will, and he's got a wild-child Stark who's not in any way fit to rule... Hell many Northern lords would probably support Jon as Lord of Winterfell rather than promoting a cadet/relative branch of the Starks (such as Royce from the Vale, or Karstark).

"It's highly doubtful that many of them have got to know him half as well as the readers have."

Oh fucking hell.

LOL! :cheers:

[Cersei of the Kingsguard]

I wonder if the Northmen are plotting, not just against the Boltons/Freys/Lannisters, but against STANNIS as well. Melisandre loves burning weirwoods, and we know how much that pissed Jon off.

it didnt piss jon of as much as it pissed me off ... we know importance of weirwoods from Bran / BR / Sam

i like Melisandre and i think she is a pawn in some foul play - Stannis is true hair to Robert - and after RW i felt like Stannis would make great king at this point

but i love ur idea of North ploting against both Stannis & Bolton

[Whoresbane Umber]

_{The Blackfish will probably have a role to play, manderly will also be key.}

[Whoresbane Umber]

Do you think Rickon will be involved in this.

[Black Wolf Smith]

_{The Blackfish will probably have a role to play, manderly will also be key.}

I doubt that Blackfish will have much to do with the north. Manderly does seems to be the ring master or at least the lead go-between the different parts.

Do you think Rickon will be involved in this.

rickon won't be old enough to do much. He might be used by somebody.

Funny I was looking back at this tread yesterday.

[Nic.]

I think Blackfish will be involved in getting the hostages out of the Twins somehow.

Rickon doesn't need to be old enough to do anything, his mere presence with his Direwolf will cause everyone to turn on the Boltons.

[Tyrion4President]

I think that banquet was very much a one-off, with the late (and largely unlamented Catelyn Stark) getting her knickers in a twist that the Queen would be offended if Ned's by-blow was sitting within pass the salt distance - after all right from the beginning Cersei had a bit of a reputation.

Its possible they weren't trying to keep Jon away from Cercei or Catelyn but maybe to keep him away from King Robert. The last thing they would need is Robert eyeing Jon from across the table and seeing a possible resemblance of Rhaegar and Lyanna

[alienarea]

Its possible they weren't trying to keep Jon away from Cercei or Catelyn but maybe to keep him away from King Robert. The last thing they would need is Robert eyeing Jon from across the table and seeing a possible resemblance of Rhaegar and Lyanna

AFAIK there isn't any optical resemblance between Rhaegar and Jon.

[firepoet]

Yeah I think Jon is described as being the most "Stark" looking children of all of them with Arya being a close second.

[The WolfSpider]

Great thread, love this idea. Seems a little too happy for GRRM but the Starks and the North are due. I didn't see it mentioned but haven't gotten all the way through but Lady Dustin actually is responsible for opening up the tombs which would make it awful easy for anyone outside WF to come inside.

It got me thinking about her and Barrowton is one place where a cadet branch of Stark is located and she did the nasty with Brandon, could there be another Stark bastard there??

Also that last lingering glance at Ned's tomb was odd. Could she be more upset that "Catelyn got that one too" than she lets on?

[Mulled Wino]

I agree that Lady Dustin is a major contributor to the NC, she's the one Roose is most comfortable with and she knows is, and she HATES the Freys.

[not in the face]

Do you guys think that the Freys and Boltons know that Jaime ordered the Freys to surrender all their prisoners to the crown? This could be Roose Bolton's trump card. Roose is not stupid. He has to know something is going down. Even if Roose loses, he wins because even if the North takes him out then the twins, they don't free their people.

And about betraying Stannis, It seems like a un-northlike move to me. Like him or not, Stannis has shed his blood defending the North from the wildlings, Ironborn, Lannisters, and in time against the Freys and Boltons. He has bled for and with the Northmen and to stab him in the back after being stabbed in the back themselves so recently does not really make sense. Robb's plan was to tie up Tywin in the Riverlands giving Stannis the time to take King's Landing then negiotiate a peace with Stannis. Eddard himself supported Stannis' claim. He could always show them that letter Ned sent him way back when if he has it.

Oh and by the way, what will the northern lords think when they find out Stannis has a blank check from the Iron Bank? Maybe betraying him is not such a good idea.

[The WolfSpider]

Do you guys think that the Freys and Boltons know that Jaime ordered the Freys to surrender all their prisoners to the crown? This could be Roose Bolton's trump card. Roose is not stupid. He has to know something is going down. Even if Roose loses, he wins because even if the North takes him out then the twins, they don't free their people.

And about betraying Stannis, It seems like a un-northlike move to me. Like him or not, Stannis has shed his blood defending the North from the wildlings, Ironborn, Lannisters, and in time against the Freys and Boltons. He has bled for and with the Northmen and to stab him in the back after being stabbed in the back themselves so recently does not really make sense. Robb's plan was to tie up Tywin in the Riverlands giving Stannis the time to take King's Landing then negiotiate a peace with Stannis. Eddard himself supported Stannis' claim. He could always show them that letter Ned sent him way back when if he has it.

Oh and by the way, what will the northern lords think when they find out Stannis has a blank check from the Iron Bank? Maybe betraying him is not such a good idea.

I was thinking about this too, that maybe if there is a conspiracy then they are planning to align with Stannis though him getting bogged down and losing so many men seems to work against this but who knows. He could be waiting for the cloaks to turn. Though Stannis mentions that even if he should die Massey is to bring the mercs back and put Shireen on the throne. Maybe he's planning some sort of fake death ala Mance's.

I really hope it doesn't end up Stannis versus Dany in the end. I'd love to see Wolf and Dragon side by side.

[Ser Endrew Tarth]

I'm with you guys, I hope that the North has more honor than a double backstab... and I totally agree Stannis deserves better after all he's done for them. But GRRM never lets things turn out how I want them to LOL.

[TheNorthernWarrior]

What actually has Stannis done for the Northern Lords yet? Ok he defeated wildling army north of the wall, would any of them have even known or noticed that? I just don't think he'd get much credit for that. As for liberating Deepwood Motte, yes I guess Stannis was leading that but to me it seemed to be mostly North Clansman that did the work. So maybe the Glovers should be thankful, but otherwise the other Northern Lords couldn't care less about Stannis.

The North doesn't owe Stannis anything, he considered Robb a rebel. He could have made a difference then. Robb would have supported his claim, if he supported Robb. He didn't and the North owes him nothing. If he succeeds is getting rid of the Bolton, and giving back the North to the Starks, then sure they owe him something, until then nothing. He hasn't yet earned anything and anything he is doing now is heavily subsidized by the North anyway.

[Black Wolf Smith]

I said this many months ago, but IMO those Northern Lords that are a part of this, are being loyal to Stannis, because Jon ask/told them too. They know he is heir, and as such the are doing his bidding by serving Stannis.

[not in the face]

What actually has Stannis done for the Northern Lords yet? Ok he defeated wildling army north of the wall, would any of them have even known or noticed that? I just don't think he'd get much credit for that. As for liberating Deepwood Motte, yes I guess Stannis was leading that but to me it seemed to be mostly North Clansman that did the work. So maybe the Glovers should be thankful, but otherwise the other Northern Lords couldn't care less about Stannis.

The North doesn't owe Stannis anything, he considered Robb a rebel. He could have made a difference then. Robb would have supported his claim, if he supported Robb. He didn't and the North owes him nothing. If he succeeds is getting rid of the Bolton, and giving back the North to the Starks, then sure they owe him something, until then nothing. He hasn't yet earned anything and anything he is doing now is heavily subsidized by the North anyway.

Yeah but if Stannis doesn't show up, The wildlings would be running rampant throughout the North and the only force that can beat them is the Bolton and Frey army. As for the clansmen well, why are they still there? Robb needed men and there were like 3000 clansmen that joined with Stannis. I don't think they would follow any northmen with the exception of the Starks. The only reason they are fighting now is because a king asked them to at the request of a Stark.

I agree Stannis is a means to an end for the northmen but he is a necessary lynchpin for bringing people together and moving their plans forward. Is there any guarantee that Jon will even accept becoming king of the north? Jon has chosen the Watch over Robb once already. He also turned down Stannis' offer to become Jon Stark. I don't think the game of thrones interests Jon. Jon is about the war for the dawn so all their schemes may very well not come to fruition. So Stannis is really their best option.

[robbrown]

I'm pretty sure that Lord Locke is plotting with Manderly. One of the Locke's was killed at the Red Wedding and the only other living Locke I can think of is Sybelle Locke who is Robett Glover's wife and sent her men at Deepwood Motte marching with Stannis after he freed them from the Iron Born.

Lady Dustin and the Ryswell's seem to be siding with Roose from now, but I doubt they are really loyal to the Bolton's considering Ramsay killed Domeric Bolton whose mother happened to be a Ryswell. Ramsay also happens to be a total sicko that none of the northern houses would accept as their liege lord should Roose die.