Woman of War Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 :) I just feel like Tyrion needs to die in TWOW - his whole angst was with his father Tywin, and now that he's killed him, I'm thinking what next? It would nice for Sansa to kill him and Cersei, and just be done with the Lannisters.Sansa has huge importance for the upcoming storyline. She's poised to be a major game player with training from LF and also with restoring Winterfell as Queen of the North.No doubt this is an unpopular opinion.Only I don't see not much evidence so far that Sansa will be of huge importance. Her claim is worthless if she stays Alayne Stone and as Sansa Stark she is wanted for murder and married, so she is somewhat hard to place for a matchmaker. Why would it be "nice" for Sansa to kill Tyrion? So far she doesn't strike me as murderous personality.And if she takes to solving her personal problems by murder, then indeed Littlefinger would be the closer target.Sansa so far does not have the personality to be a major gameplayer, so far she is only a major claim and trophy. She has a long way of growing up to do before she will act on her own and forget about others' demands on her.So far she is only a prize to win, for LF, Sandor or whomever you dislike. But it is well possible that GRRM Will make the little pink princess grow up, maybe not the nice way, perhaps through a lot of suffering, if she survives at all - innocence is bound to be destroyed. Leaving her the little virginal ingenue, dancing through the dark events until she finds her prince - very unlikely.I don't see Tyrion die so soon. He in fact has just started a story arc into the middle of things again. And through him GRRM gives us a lot of insight - i actually liked his travelogues. He very probably will be a major gameplayer in the future of the story. Sansa and Tyrion might meet again, but murderous hatred - no, why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verboten Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Her innocence has already been completely destroyed. I don't want to see her kill Tyrion but I don't have a frothing hatred of the character either, just disgust and huge amounts of pity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 I don't understand the whole King and Queen in the North wish. Because it worked so well for Robb? Rickon can just be the Lord or keep the seat warm if Bran ever comes out of the cave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woman of War Posted November 17, 2011 Author Share Posted November 17, 2011 Her innocence has already been completely destroyed. I don't want to see her kill Tyrion but I don't have a frothing hatred of the character either, just disgust and huge amounts of pity.No, compared to most female characters in the books she so far struck relatively lucky. Her family is dead, or so she believes, which is of course horrible. But she herself had been spared serious physical harm, she has her health, does not starve, is kept warm by servants and is in no immediate physical danger - so I can only hope for her own good that there is no naivety left anymore, otherwise the horror is yet to come.And for Tyrion - the disgust and pity are exactly what GRRM will build his future development upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mediocre cheese Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 No, compared to most female characters in the books she so far struck relatively lucky. Her family is dead, or so she believes, which is of course horrible. But she herself had been spared serious physical harm, she has her health, does not starve, is kept warm by servants and is in no immediate physical danger - so I can only hope for her own good that there is no naivety left anymore, otherwise the horror is yet to come.She gets beaten repeatedly and severely, so much so that her bruises are visible for days afterward. That sounds pretty serious to me, unless were using a sliding scale whereby mutilation is the only thing that counts as serious physical harm. In which case Theon, Jaime and Loras take the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 But it is well possible that GRRM Will make the little pink princess grow up, maybe not the nice way, perhaps through a lot of suffering, if she survives at all - innocence is bound to be destroyed. Leaving her the little virginal ingenue, dancing through the dark events until she finds her prince - very unlikely.Sansa stopped being the "little pink princess" a long time ago. She is still dutiful and passive, but that hardly makes her some sort of girl with her head in the clouds. Also if you don't think (watching your father having had his head cut off in front of you, being beaten daily, having to say your family are traitors to stop your self from further beatings, being completely ostracised by everyone around you for over a year, stripped and beaten in front of a laughing court, forced against your will into a marriage with the family who have murdered all of yours and designed so that your claim can be stolen by that family, whilst having all your family die off in dribs and drabs and not even having anyone to comfort you) suffering then I don't know what you're definition of suffering is.There are lots of reasons Sansa might kill Tyrion and a lot have to do with working out the Slaying the giant in the Castle of Snow Prophecy. She might also want to kill him not through hatred, but because she wants out of the marriage.Here's an unpopular opinion: I think Sansa has suffered as much, if not more, than Arya. (going to run and hide from the rocks now). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalais Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Cersei was knocked up by one of the Kettleburns, it is known. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzle Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 It is common knowledge that Sansa and Tyrion's marriage was never consummated, so it can be set aside. Plus, Littlefinger already betrothed her to Harold Hardyng, or at least plans to. Can't remember if he told her it's official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verboten Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sansa would have made a far better Faceless Man than Arya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARYa_Nym Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Maybe LF will have her kill Sweetrobin to test her assassin skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sansa would have made a far better Faceless Man than Arya.This is a very interesting idea.....Arya has taken on multiple personas Nan, Weasel, Cat etc, but she still has her Wolf dreams and a very strong sense of who she is. Sansa though has learnt to hide her emotions to the point that she can be told her Brother and Mother were murdered and not react until she is alone. However I'm not sure she would have coped well with the training....I think she might have run away from that worm on the old man's face......oh then again she did have to kiss LF, so you never know!! :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verboten Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 This is a very interesting idea.....Arya has taken on multiple personas Nan, Weasel, Cat etc, but she still has her Wolf dreams and a very strong sense of who she is. Sansa though has learnt to hide her emotions to the point that she can be told her Brother and Mother were murdered and not react until she is alone. However I'm not sure she would have coped well with the training....I think she might have run away from that worm on the old man's face......oh then again she did have to kiss LF, so you never know!! :eek:But during Arya's time as Arry her chapters are still named Arya. Sansa starts thinking of herself as Alayne within weeks of assuming the identity and has even made up a personality for her (but Alayne was older than Sansa and bastard-brave). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 But during Arya's time as Arry her chapters are still named Arya. Sansa starts thinking of herself as Alayne within weeks of assuming the identity and has even made up a personality for her (but Alayne was older than Sansa and bastard-brave).Jaime did say it would be best if she forgot she was ever Sansa Stark! :D Obviously she won't, but it would have been interesting if the mis-memory of the kiss signified her later altering her memory to think she is Alayne permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chise Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 But during Arya's time as Arry her chapters are still named Arya. Sansa starts thinking of herself as Alayne within weeks of assuming the identity and has even made up a personality for her (but Alayne was older than Sansa and bastard-brave).Its a bit ironic that Arya is all impulsive~ness and violent natured... yet she's better at keeping her identity than Sansa (who is very good at bottling up everything)Then again, if Arya didn't have her nightly Nymeria dreams, she may have lost herself just as much as Sansa did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leigh of Oldstones Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sansa stopped being the "little pink princess" a long time ago. She is still dutiful and passive, but that hardly makes her some sort of girl with her head in the clouds. Also if you don't think (watching your father having had his head cut off in front of you, being beaten daily, having to say your family are traitors to stop your self from further beatings, being completely ostracised by everyone around you for over a year, stripped and beaten in front of a laughing court, forced against your will into a marriage with the family who have murdered all of yours and designed so that your claim can be stolen by that family, whilst having all your family die off in dribs and drabs and not even having anyone to comfort you) suffering then I don't know what you're definition of suffering is.There are lots of reasons Sansa might kill Tyrion and a lot have to do with working out the Slaying the giant in the Castle of Snow Prophecy. She might also want to kill him not through hatred, but because she wants out of the marriage.Here's an unpopular opinion: I think Sansa has suffered as much, if not more, than Arya. (going to run and hide from the rocks now).They suffered equally in different ways. Arya wouldn't have lasted very long at court, her personality is just not geared to having to deal with the subtle dangers of court life, which is extremely political and personal and you have to watch everything you say and do and be so careful to survive. Unless you are the queen or the king, you have to stifle a LOT of your impulses & personality to survive. Sansa is able to do that. Well, not so good at first but she learns and fairly quickly because it is in her very nature to do so. As Catelyn told Brienne, Sansa was always a lady even when she was a three-year old child, and always wanted to please people and have them like her.Arya is much better at dealing with in-your-face danger and she doesn't get subtlety at all. Sansa wouldn't have lasted very long in Arya's post-KL conditions. But Sansa is so much more accustomed to working within the accepted social norms for highborn people, whereas Arya rejects all of that. Arya has always had major difficulty in accepting the role that is expected of her in society. She hates it. Because of her youth and her father's indulgence, she could avoid having to face that for a while, and she is orphaned before she has to start facing her expected societal role for real. Her ordeals on the run suit her much more than the ordeals she would have faced at court.So they both have awesome survival skills, but just in different areas. Neither of them would have survived long in each other's worlds.I hope this makes sense... I've had a couple of cocktails [hic]. :drunk: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Sansa stopped being the "little pink princess" a long time ago. She is still dutiful and passive, but that hardly makes her some sort of girl with her head in the clouds. Also if you don't think (watching your father having had his head cut off in front of you, being beaten daily, having to say your family are traitors to stop your self from further beatings, being completely ostracised by everyone around you for over a year, stripped and beaten in front of a laughing court, forced against your will into a marriage with the family who have murdered all of yours and designed so that your claim can be stolen by that family, whilst having all your family die off in dribs and drabs and not even having anyone to comfort you) suffering then I don't know what you're definition of suffering is.There are lots of reasons Sansa might kill Tyrion and a lot have to do with working out the Slaying the giant in the Castle of Snow Prophecy. She might also want to kill him not through hatred, but because she wants out of the marriage.Here's an unpopular opinion: I think Sansa has suffered as much, if not more, than Arya. (going to run and hide from the rocks now).Oh yes they both suffered, and if the two should get together and reconcile I could hear the Reins of Castemere in the background for house Lannister, saving LF for last. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grail King Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 @the blind eyeRickon is not on skagos..... how the hell did Osha smuggle an unruly Direwolf on board a ship/through white harbor? And if she built a raft to get there how did it not capsize? Wish we knew what Bran hears, and what Luwin said to Osha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brashcandy Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 No, compared to most female characters in the books she so far struck relatively lucky. Her family is dead, or so she believes, which is of course horrible. But she herself had been spared serious physical harm, she has her health, does not starve, is kept warm by servants and is in no immediate physical danger - so I can only hope for her own good that there is no naivety left anymore, otherwise the horror is yet to come.And for Tyrion - the disgust and pity are exactly what GRRM will build his future development upon.No naivete left anymore? I think it would have disappeared sometime between getting beaten daily by grown men, having your life constantly threatened, nearly being raped and thown through a moon door. Yup, gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1234567 Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 Wish we knew what Bran hears, and what Luwin said to Osha.I think the conversation between Osha and Luwin may have been very important, especially as Luwin knew the boys weren't dead and may have been making plans of his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Cake Posted November 17, 2011 Share Posted November 17, 2011 oh then again she did have to kiss LF, so you never know!! :eek:Arya got the better end of that deal. I'd rather eat the worm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.