Unpopular opinions, more of them

[Queen Cersei I]

Cersei was knocked up by one of the Kettleburns, it is known.

No way, she's just on her downward slide to fatness and ugliness, which in turn will lead to total self destruction, insanity, and child murder.

The idea that Cersei is really pregnant is as ridiculous as the idea that she's not demonized for her sexual behavior or other sexist stuff; or that Tyrion's misogyny is intentional.

[Ser-Arthur-Dayne]

No way, she's just on her downward slide to fatness and ugliness, which in turn will lead to total self destruction, insanity, and child murder.

The idea that Cersei is really pregnant is as ridiculous as the idea that she's not demonized for her sexual behavior or other sexist stuff; or that Tyrion's misogyny is intentional.

There is no way Cersei is pregnant :lol: She's just getting old.

"which in turn will lead to total self destruction, insanity, and child murder"

hasn't she already accomplished the first two, and attempted the latter? :P

[Wolf Maid]

I don’t see any of the growth that people talk about with Sansa. She is still passive and relies on other people to get her out of situations. She hasn’t done anything for herself.

Also, Arya has had it much worse than Sansa. Yes, Sansa got beat and threatened with rape. Arya went through that as well and much worse. She was in the middle of a war. She watched people get killed and tortured, not knowing if she was going to be next. She has gone hungry for long periods of time, was kidnapped several different times, been hunted by the Bloody Mummers and has had to kill to survive. All that while Sansa was sitting in a castle waiting for someone to rescue her. I don’t see how Sansa’s situation is comparable to Arya’s at all. She has only been through a fraction of the things Arya has.

[Chise]

Wolf Maid, I totally agree with you on Sansa!

The only time she shows any growth or mental activity is in the Eyrie of all places. She knew when to keep quiet about being Sansa, and how to sweet-talk Sweetrobin into gettin the hell outta bed and gettin on with the leaving for the winter

[ARYa_Nym]

Also, Arya has had it much worse than Sansa. Yes, Sansa got beat and threatened with rape. Arya went through that as well and much worse.

Yes, there were some serious pedos in the book. Arya is too young. :stillsick: This is why she had to pretend to be a boy. She started to get harassed when people realized that she was a girl.

"An old man sat down beside her. "Well, aren't you a pretty little peach?...Does my sweet peach have a name?" She's my sister." Gendry put a heavy hand on the old man's shoulder and squeezed. "Leave her be."

"Come closer," Rorge said, "and I'll shove that stick up your bunghole and fuck you bloody."

"See there?' Amabel pointed across the yeard at Pia. "When the northman falls you'll be where she is."...I may have a turn at you myself. Harra had an old broom, I'll save it for you. The handle's cracked and splintery-"

"...the sad-eyed little man who made up all the bawdy farces for the Ship, offered to teach her how a woman kisses, but Tagganaro smacked him with a codfish and put an end to that."

"...one of the Pentoshi oarsman asked her how much she wanted for the clam between her legs... "

I think Arya's journey chapters made the point that the small folk have it much worse than the high born.

[brashcandy]

I don’t see any of the growth that people talk about with Sansa. She is still passive and relies on other people to get her out of situations. She hasn’t done anything for herself.

Also, Arya has had it much worse than Sansa. Yes, Sansa got beat and threatened with rape. Arya went through that as well and much worse. She was in the middle of a war. She watched people get killed and tortured, not knowing if she was going to be next. She has gone hungry for long periods of time, was kidnapped several different times, been hunted by the Bloody Mummers and has had to kill to survive. All that while Sansa was sitting in a castle waiting for someone to rescue her. I don’t see how Sansa’s situation is comparable to Arya’s at all. She has only been through a fraction of the things Arya has.

Let's think about this clearly please. Both girls have been through horrible, horrible experiences, but minimizing the horror of Sansa's situation as she was simply sitting in a castle waiting for someone to rescue her is ridiculously false.

1. Do you have any idea the severity of being beaten on a daily basis? To not know when something you said or did not say would set Joffrey off? That kind of uncertainty and cruelty would have sent anyone crazy. It is a fact that Arya did not have to endure this kind of daily torture. Whilst she may have watched it happening to others and feared she was next, Sansa actually experienced the terror as one of the victims.

2. Sansa lived with the knowledge that her life could be forfeit at any minute. Unlike Arya, who at least had some security of being on the run, and some training in how to fight and evade capture, Sansa was in the heart of enemy territory, with no one to turn too. For a time Arya has Yoren, and Gendry and Hot pie. Sansa's one friend, Jeyne, is taken away so that she is completely isolated with no one to talk to and confide in.

3. Sansa was not filling her belly full at KL, and living the sweet life. Whilst Arya may have gone hungry with no roof over her head, Sansa was still a prisoner at the court. Her every move was watched and reported on. She manages to establish some rapport with the Hound, but he is the sworn guard of her abuser; not exactly the person she can tell how she really feels.

4. Sansa is forced into a marriage at 12 yrs old to the man whose family is responsible for destroying her own. She is humiliated and trapped, nearly made to have sex and later further neglected and isolated by the Tyrells whom she imagined were her friends.

Added to all of this is the constant psychological torment she endures with being known as a traitor's daughter, having to pretend to still like the monster Joffrey, and never knowing just when the Lannisters might decide they've had enough of her and give her the same punishment as Ned. However, all through this, Sansa endures and survives as does Arya. Both girls are rescued by the intervention of characters like the Hound, Littlefinger and Jaqen. Make no mistake, Arya would most likely have been dead by the wayside if he had not given her that coin to enable her passage to Braavos.

And Sansa did not just start changing and growing when she reached the Eyrie. She's long since realised back at KL the duplicitous nature of people she thought were inherently honourable like knights and Queens, and she isn't a naive little girl concerned with pretty dresses anymore. The Sansa that is so deftly able to deal with Sweetrobin is a product of her experiences at KL, which have made her stronger and better able to cope with the needs of others without collapsing in on herself. She is taking the Hound's advice and becoming a better liar than she was back then too. Sansa's development often seems to skip people's attention because it is largely internal and very subtle, but it is there.

[ARYa_Nym]

1. Do you have any idea the severity of being beaten on a daily basis? To not know when something you said or did not say would set Joffrey off? That kind of uncertainty and cruelty would have sent anyone crazy. It is a fact that Arya did not have to endure this kind of daily torture.

That's not true. Weese hit her and threatened her.

"Weese was nearly as scary as Ser Gregor...He would hit at the slightest provocation, and he had a dog who was near as bad as he was... "Weasel,"...next time I see that mouth droop open, I'l pull out your tongue and feed it to my bitch."

"I could flee..She might have done it if not for Weese. He told them...It won't be no beating...I'll just save you for the Qohorik...I'll save your for the Crippler. Vargo Hoat his name is..."

"When Weese found that she hadn't asked about the clothes, he yanked down her breeches and caned her until blood ran down her thighs..."

Roose Bolton also threatened her.

"I am not in the habit of being questioned by servants, Nan. Must I have your tongue out?"

[Raksha the Demon]

Don't forget that Sansa lived in constant fear of, with considerable justification, of Ser Ilyn lying in wait for her or being sent to execute her. She has also not only watched the punishments that Joffrey pronounced on mostly innocent other people, and tasted his wrath herself. And Sansa gets to imagine the impending joys of being married to the boy she knows is a monster; Joffrey himself has sworn to bed her when she's flowered.

Then there was the Battle of the Blackwater, during which Sansa co-hosted the nervous court of ladies with Cersei (on a side note, Sansa was one of the few people who tried to speak kindly to the terrified Lollys Stokeworth when the latter panicked on the way to the Keep). Cersei not only tells Sansa that the women are likely to be raped and killed if Stannis' forces win entry, but that Sansa herself will be killed by Ser Ilyn on Cersei's orders if the Keep is breached by the enemy. Sansa displays considerable courage in not running or crying; but maintaining her poise, at least outwardly, despite her fear. Her conduct is as brave as any action of Arya's, in my opinion, particularly when Cersei deserts the frightened women and Sansa takes charge, putting the ladies at ease as best she can. Then, when Sansa finally returns to her bedchamber, she has a drunken Hound lying in wait for her, putting a knife to her throat; and she still manages, despite terror so extreme she can barely speak, to calm him down with a song and a gesture of compassion. As if that's not a scary enough time for Sansa, she then gets her first menstrual period, which she knows will take away the last protection she had from being taken to Joffrey's bed.

Later, as we know, Sansa is forcibly married to yet another Lannister, a man she cannot trust, let alone love. It is quite sad that in all the interactions Sansa has with Tyrion, he is the one Lannister who she might be able to confide her fear and loneliness, and she is terrified of trusting another Lannister, even one who appears to be kind, because of her experience with Joffrey and Cersei.

It is also notable that despite Tyrion's outstanding intelligence and perception, Sansa very neatly pulls the wool over his eyes about her motives for visiting the Godswood. Tyrion just thinks she is very pious; he has no clue that she is planning to escape.

And it is notable that Sansa was able to think on her feet, not just in hoodwinking Tyrion, but Joffrey himself, when she spoke up and saved Dontos' life, despite being afraid of Joffrey's reaction to her contradicting him.

Sansa has not been safely waiting anywhere since AGOT; she has not been safe at all. Littlefinger promises to take her "home"; and Sansa learns pretty quickly that "home" is his home rather than hers, first the Fingers, then the Eyrie, where she is subject to the sexual advances of her supposed 'father'/mentor and then the murderous rage of Littlefinger's wife, who is her own aunt. And even after Lysa's death, Sansa is still trapped, and in danger, between moral corruption and unwelcome physical seduction by Littlefinger, and being hunted by Cersei's agents for her supposed complicity in Joffrey's death.

Arya has had a terrible journey from King's Landing to the keeping of the Faceless Men; but Sansa's journey has also been dangerous and packed with more stress and terror than any 12-13year-old should have to endure. And both sisters are still in great moral and physical danger.

[Verboten]

Both Arya and Sansa suffered far more than their brothers ever did, and have both been changed as a result. Neither of them is physically capable of trusting another person wholly and completely any longer, though it is expressed differently with each character. Sansa has lost herself, her soul if you will, in lies and weaves a careful web around herself and others, sometimes even retroactively altering the past so it won't be as painful for her to remember, in both concious and unconcious manners. Arya on the other hand tries her best to forget herself but cannot succeed, because somewhere Nymeria still roams and she is still a Stark of Winterfell no matter which name she wears. If Arya had been in King's Landing she would have been killed outright for trying to kill Joffrey. If Sansa had been with Yoren she would have already embraced the concept of being no-one and lost herself forever.

They are both tragic characters who suffer and persevere in their own ways so comparing them and trying to hold up one as better is annoying at best and completely missing the point of their conflicting stories and personalities at worst.

[Sand Snake No. 9]

Unpopular opinion: Robb's will will be discovered, Sansa will be disinherited, and it will be the best thing that ever happened to her. People will lose interest in her as marriage material and she'll have to live as a person, instead of a lady with a claim. How liberating --

[Verboten]

Unpopular opinion: Robb's will will be discovered, Sansa will be disinherited, and it will be the best thing that ever happened to her. People will lose interest in her as marriage material and she'll have to live as a person, instead of a lady with a claim. How liberating --

I'd agree with this if it were discovered after LF was safely decomposing at the foot of a mountain somewhere.

[Raksha the Demon]

I would think that Robb's will would contain a clause that reinstated Sansa if her marriage to Tyrion ended through widowhood or was declared invalid. If there is still a ruler of the Seven Kingdoms when that will does surface, he or she could declare the will invalid on the grounds that Robb was a traitor, his right to hold Winterfell forfeit, and hence he had no right to bequeath it to anyone.

But we'll see what kind of ultimate destiny GRRM has in mind for Sansa; at least I hope we will: Lady Clegane (wife of Sandor) or Lady Sansa Lannister (wife of Tyrion) or Lady of the Vale through marriage to Harry or SweetRobin, or Queen of the North if Rickon and Bran never turn up. Or she could be killed off....

[Wolf Maid]

Let's think about this clearly please. Both girls have been through horrible, horrible experiences, but minimizing the horror of Sansa's situation as she was simply sitting in a castle waiting for someone to rescue her is ridiculously false.

1. Do you have any idea the severity of being beaten on a daily basis? To not know when something you said or did not say would set Joffrey off? That kind of uncertainty and cruelty would have sent anyone crazy. It is a fact that Arya did not have to endure this kind of daily torture. Whilst she may have watched it happening to others and feared she was next, Sansa actually experienced the terror as one of the victims.

2. Sansa lived with the knowledge that her life could be forfeit at any minute. Unlike Arya, who at least had some security of being on the run, and some training in how to fight and evade capture, Sansa was in the heart of enemy territory, with no one to turn too. For a time Arya has Yoren, and Gendry and Hot pie. Sansa's one friend, Jeyne, is taken away so that she is completely isolated with no one to talk to and confide in.

3. Sansa was not filling her belly full at KL, and living the sweet life. Whilst Arya may have gone hungry with no roof over her head, Sansa was still a prisoner at the court. Her every move was watched and reported on. She manages to establish some rapport with the Hound, but he is the sworn guard of her abuser; not exactly the person she can tell how she really feels.

4. Sansa is forced into a marriage at 12 yrs old to the man whose family is responsible for destroying her own. She is humiliated and trapped, nearly made to have sex and later further neglected and isolated by the Tyrells whom she imagined were her friends.

Added to all of this is the constant psychological torment she endures with being known as a traitor's daughter, having to pretend to still like the monster Joffrey, and never knowing just when the Lannisters might decide they've had enough of her and give her the same punishment as Ned. However, all through this, Sansa endures and survives as does Arya. Both girls are rescued by the intervention of characters like the Hound, Littlefinger and Jaqen. Make no mistake, Arya would most likely have been dead by the wayside if he had not given her that coin to enable her passage to Braavos.

And Sansa did not just start changing and growing when she reached the Eyrie. She's long since realised back at KL the duplicitous nature of people she thought were inherently honourable like knights and Queens, and she isn't a naive little girl concerned with pretty dresses anymore. The Sansa that is so deftly able to deal with Sweetrobin is a product of her experiences at KL, which have made her stronger and better able to cope with the needs of others without collapsing in on herself. She is taking the Hound's advice and becoming a better liar than she was back then too. Sansa's development often seems to skip people's attention because it is largely internal and very subtle, but it is there.

I have thought about it clearly and Arya went through much worse both physically and psychologically. As another poster mentioned before, Arya was used to show that the small folk had it worse than the high born and she was one of the small folk.

Arya was in Flea Bottom for days before Yoren came and was on her own. She was not safe being on the run. Yoren couldn’t watch her every minute, which is how the situation with Hot Pie happened. After Yoren died, she had no protection. She certainly wasn’t safe when they had to fight off Amory’s men.

Arya was beaten and threatened daily by Weese and other guards as well. She had to figure out what would set them off too. It wasn’t just one person for her, it was all of them. She was no one to them and could have been killed at any second, just like they killed the rest of the small folk. She didn’t have the protection of being a high born hostage. They weren’t going to kill Sansa as long as Jaime was still a hostage.

Arya was a prisoner at Harrenhal, she didn’t go there voluntarily. She was caught by the Mountain and was forced to work there. She had to listen to people call her father a traitor as well. She was working for the people who were fighting against her family and who she saw murder her friend, just because he had a bad leg. The only difference is that she decided to do something about it and she didn’t wait around for someone to rescue her. Also, Arya didn't get the faceless coin for no reason. First, Jaqen gave her the coin because he saw potential in her. Also, she would never have gotten the coin if she hadn’t risked her life to save his. She earned the coin and only used it as a last resort.

Arya had to go through much worse than Sansa psychologically as well. A little girl having to fight armed men and not knowing if she was going to make it out alive is not easy. Having to watch people get tortured to death (men, women and children) and not knowing if you are going to get chosen next would have very bad psychological repercussions for a child. Watching a baby get brutally murdered for crying and a mother get murdered for grieving is not easy either. Not to mention the lack of food, the long marches and knowing you can be killed for even speaking a word that a guard doesn’t like. Like I mentioned before, the situations aren’t comparable. Sansa didn’t go through or see half of what Arya did.

[ARYa_Nym]

I also don't understand how Arya had no reason to think that she could be killed anytime since people usually complain that her ability to kill grown men is unrealistic. & she really didn't know how to fight. Syrio's little session doesn't make her a Brienne. She's not that good at swordplay really. I imagine that it would take years of formal training. She usually gets grown men because like Brienne they underestimate her and she often had to use the element of surprise. That could always go wrong.

As for being safe with Yoren, he also had Rorge and Biter with him. Rorge threatened to rape her more than once.

[Woman of War]

I have thought about it clearly and Arya went through much worse both physically and psychologically. As another poster mentioned before, Arya was used to show that the small folk had it worse than the high born and she was one of the small folk.

Arya was in Flea Bottom for days before Yoren came and was on her own. She was not safe being on the run. Yoren couldn’t watch her every minute, which is how the situation with Hot Pie happened. After Yoren died, she had no protection. She certainly wasn’t safe when they had to fight off Amory’s men.

Arya was beaten and threatened daily by Weese and other guards as well. She had to figure out what would set them off too. It wasn’t just one person for her, it was all of them. She was no one to them and could have been killed at any second, just like they killed the rest of the small folk. She didn’t have the protection of being a high born hostage. They weren’t going to kill Sansa as long as Jaime was still a hostage.

Arya was a prisoner at Harrenhal, she didn’t go there voluntarily. She was caught by the Mountain and was forced to work there. She had to listen to people call her father a traitor as well. She was working for the people who were fighting against her family and who she saw murder her friend, just because he had a bad leg. The only difference is that she decided to do something about it and she didn’t wait around for someone to rescue her. Also, Arya didn't get the faceless coin for no reason. First, Jaqen gave her the coin because he saw potential in her. Also, she would never have gotten the coin if she hadn’t risked her life to save his. She earned the coin and only used it as a last resort.

Arya had to go through much worse than Sansa psychologically as well. A little girl having to fight armed men and not knowing if she was going to make it out alive is not easy. Having to watch people get tortured to death (men, women and children) and not knowing if you are going to get chosen next would have very bad psychological repercussions for a child. Watching a baby get brutally murdered for crying and a mother get murdered for grieving is not easy either. Not to mention the lack of food, the long marches and knowing you can be killed for even speaking a word that a guard doesn’t like. Like I mentioned before, the situations aren’t comparable. Sansa didn’t go through or see half of what Arya did.

:agree: great post

The aspect that Arya represents the fate of the smallfolk during her travels is a very important one in the books

Sansa has her food prepared, her room warmed and her clothes washed by servants. The horses she is riding are given to her perfectly groomed and the candles are lighted in her rooms - she HAS candles, that is already something. The stuff candles were made off had to be eaten by most people - light or calories.

Think about the fate of most commoner serving girls, they were game at the will of any nobleman.

You can compare Arya's situation to them. Arya was saved in many situations by sheer luck, known as plot armor, but most of all because she does not shy back from taking the initiative or simple cleverness - weasel soup.

Sansa is still suffering the fate of the damsel in distress who gets, well, distressed, spiced up by Martin, but still is a damsel. She had to watch her Father getting killed after she tried in vain (and by the wrong means) to save him. That is imo the most horrible event that has happened to her. I may be biased, I miss my parents daily, but losing a parent that way is a bit more than being beaten or undressed. ( Arya had to watch the execution as well )

Although maybe I should stop the comparison. The point I wanted to make with starting it was, as I wrote, that Sansa needs a lot of development to become an actively acting protagonist in the story. And that development will probably be caused by horrible things that will happen to her. She perhaps will have to commit some murders, If it is line with her personality or not. It is possible that she no longer escapes rape, nearly no woman in this series does, and so I am not very optimistic about her well being. But we follow her storyline for so long, so Martin will have plans with her. I don't think that her virginity will be kept intact to be offered as reward for Sandor or Tyrion or whatever princeling, honestly, kitsch. No, she will have to stop being claim or reward - or she will die.

[1234567]

The aspect that Arya represents the fate of the smallfolk during her travels is a very important one in the books

Sansa has her food prepared, her room warmed and her clothes washed by servants. The horses she is riding are given to her perfectly groomed and the candles are lighted in her rooms - she HAS candles, that is already something. The stuff candles were made off had to be eaten by most people - light or calories.

Think about the fate of most commoner serving girls, they were game at the will of any nobleman.

Many victims of domestic abuse also have nice homes and plenty to eat etc, but that doesn't mean they are not suffering. Just because others are suffering from being in a war zone does not mean that Sansa is fine and dandy. Would you say victims of domestic abuse shouldn't worry too much about it because women in war zones are treated worse? Both lots are suffering IMHO.

Sansa was beaten daily by the Kings Guard and with mailed gloves. Any time she does try to do anything, be it saying she hopes the the Others get Janos Slynt or that Robb will give her Joff's head she is beaten. Sansa learnt pretty quickly to survive she had to stay underneath the radar.

Arya maybe more proactive in general but when caught by Gregor her behaviour was almost identical to Sansa's: keep out of the way and quiet. Arya's time with Yoren was fraught with danger, but at least Yoren was trying to protect her, similarly Arya had Hotpie and Gendry for company. She at least had some friends, Sansa had No One. Arya's time in Harrenhal was tough with Weese, and he did hit her which must have been awful. Then she gets caught by the BWB who treat her well and are kind to her, especially about her father as they are still King's Men. Sandor Clegane then takes care of her up until she gets to the Saltpans. She often has someone looking out for her, which Sansa does not.

Arya has been through absolute hell and certainly has had more strain in terms of physical endurance, with having to go hungry etc, but I think Sansa has had to deal with more psychological endurance.

The point I wanted to make with starting it was, as I wrote, that Sansa needs a lot of development to become an actively acting protagonist in the story. And that development will probably caused by horrible things that will happen to her. She perhaps will have to commit some murders, If it is line with her personality or not. It is possible that she no longer escapes rape, nearly no woman in this series does, and so I am not very optimistic about her well being. But we follow her storyline for so long, so Martin will have plans with her. I don't think that her virginity will be kept intact to be offered as reward for Sandor or Tyrion or whatever princeling, honestly, kitsch. No, she will have to stop being claim or reward - or she will die.

Sansa has already had horrible things happen to her. Because Sansa didn't react more, it seems like she is being accused of no longer being a victim: like it's her own fault she is being beaten! I do find this disturbing. I'm sorry, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way, but from your statement above it almost sounds like you want her to be raped!

Edit: Also so far very few Highborn women in the series have been raped. Dany, Lady Hornwood and the wife and daughters on the island Euron raided are some, but most we have met have escaped that fate.

BTW: GRRM talks about about fantasy tropes and the role of women in So Spake Martin. http://www.westeros....our_Vancouver1/

[ARYa_Nym]

She finally found someone from Winterfell-Harwin and he turned and used her for ransom. The BWB treated her well but the betrayal hurt.

As for Arya having friends, how do you think she felt when they left her?

"Hot Pie and Gendry had left her just as soon as they could, and Lord Beric and the outlaws only wanted to ransom her, just like the Hound. None of them wanted her around. They were never my pack, not even Hot Pie and Gendry. I was stupid to think so..."

[A Maidens Fantasy]

BTW: GRRM talks about about fantasy tropes and the role of women in So Spake Martin. http://www.westeros....our_Vancouver1/

The interesting bit is here for those that suffer from tl:dr

Question from John:

what was the hardest thing in writing about such an alien world?

G - the vast majority of fantasy is middle agey time wise, and he himself finds the period fascinating; glad to adopt it for novel writing - likes knights and castles and such. He objects to bad fantasy practice which adopts a time setting without accepting the culture - imposing 20th century values like the cheeky stableboy telling off the princess (in reality cheeky stableboy would lose his tongue - look what happend to Micah); the class system was not just and ornament and these people truly belived in blood, and the rank and priviledge that came with "good" blood. He discussed the role of women - in bad fantasy where the princess refuses to marry the old ugly fart - women were raised to accept this as their fate (ie Sansa and Tyrion); he castigated the warrior princess in a chainmail bikini, who in that reality would get chopped in two with a longsword. You needed brute strength to fight a la middle ages (voila Brienne); but women could fight with other weapons (sand snakes), it was just very very rare.

And can I say as much as I love a good discussion on Sansa and Arya, shouldn't this discussion have its own thread? I was going to post an unpopular opinion, but it feels a bit out of place here. 90% of the posts are about something else :mellow:

[1234567]

As for Arya having friends, how do you think she felt when they left her?

Probably much the same as Sansa felt when the Tyrells ditched her.

I really find the Tyrells nauseating. I'm still not sure if they set up Tyrion and Sansa to take the fall for Joff's death, but it wouldn't surprise me.

[Tini]

Arya has been through absolute hell and certainly has had more strain in terms of physical endurance, with having to go hungry etc, but I think Sansa has had to deal with more psychological endurance.

Sansa doesn't have physical endurance. That doesn't mean she has more phychological endurance than Arya. Just because Arya is generally the tougher one of the two, the more proactive one, doesn't mean she doesn't suffer.

It only means that people like Randyll Tarly will shrug off Arya's suffering because she brought it on herself, by her actions. (Their opinion, not mine.)