Skyrim; Wielding Swords, and Banging Nords

[Werthead]

This was started because I said that BioWare makes the best stories in the business. And Bethesda makes the best open-worlds in the business.

This has degenerated into people claiming that Obsidian is pretty good too.

Here are the questions.

1) Does Obsidian make better stories than BioWare?

2) Does Obsidian make better stories than Bethesda?

For me, the answer to both questions is no.

The answer to 1) is subjective, generally based around the player's preference for playing the same story again and again and again in slightly-rejigged (but to be fair, always interesting) ways (BioWare) or enjoying something that at least tries to be different, even at the occasional risk of failure (Obsidian). Different strokes.

The answer to 2) is, and I think pretty objectively, no. Bethesda are not good at stories, characters or dialogue, at least not consistently (at odd moments - like the Dark Brotherhood quests in most of their ES games, or the 'in-the-painting' mission from Oblivion - they suddenly show tremendous competence, and typically you find this is when an outsourced writer has come on board like that guy from the Thief series). I don't think even they have ever claimed that. Unless of course you meant, 'Do Obsidian do worlds better than Bethesda' which would make more sense, and the answer I agree would be no, not at all. Bethesda are the best in the business at doing single-player, open-world games. It's just that they have severe problems populating them with interesting characters with interesting things to say. That's where Obsidian excels. This is why I'm so looking forward to playing New Vegas, as it should be a marriage made in heaven (though based on feedback, it's not as successful as it should be). EDIT: Ah, and I finally see the GotY Edition - now called 'Ultimate Edition' for some reason - is due in February 2012.

Back on-topic, someone found how to remove the textures from Skyrim and did so to see what the game looks like. The answer is surprisingly playable and bizarre.

[Sivin]

Sorry, the question #2 was meant to be:

Does Obsidian make better open-world games than Bethesda.

Sorry for the mistake.

[Kosciuszko]

Sorry, the question #2 was meant to be:

Does Obsidian make better open-world games than Bethesda.

Sorry for the mistake.

We only have one instance of Obsidian doing this type of game and it was better than pretty much anything Bethesda's done since Morrowind (except maybe Skyrim).

The big question is how much of F:NV was Bethesda and how much Obsidian. Though I'm willing to concede Obsidian lacks the resources to do the Bethesda-type worlds without technical assistance.

[Vhagar]

How about a new thread for the who makes the best games stuff? Just a thought.

K, I have yet to SEE a dragon outside the intro. I'm just roaming around doing whatever. I'm sort of following the thieves guild, I'm about to start the Dark Brotherhood (Stealth oriented Khajiit, two handed and archery, Now with CLAWS!! *scratch*) I'm doing some daedric quests and lots of random quests. I never get the option to buy a house, though. I would love to, I'm carrying a crapload of loot around, selling as much of it as possible whenever I can. I'm missing something stupid, I know it. Right now I'm just trying to resolve the ridiculous amount of random quests she's picked up.

I would seriously love to get the setbartergold cheat back so I could unload all this. I just can't stand to drop it! My cat is unethical but frugal.

There is some really fun stuff going on in this game, I'm loving the exploration. I like that the map tells you if you cleared a location or not, too. It has it's problems, but I'm enjoying it!

[Verboten]

You need to talk to the Jarl of Whiterun to get your first dragon killing quest.

[Vhagar]

OHHHH! OK. Thank you! I won't do that for awhile, I am not sure my kitten cat is ready for a dragon, though she kicks some serious boo-tay. I admit, I'm not a strategy player, preferring to blindly stumble my way through. Derrrr... :lol:

[Kosciuszko]

That also unlocks the first house for 5000 gold.

[Vhagar]

Oh well, poo. Do I have to follow the quest to the finish to get the house? 5000 gold isn't a problem, she's rolling in it. Over 30000 right now? Something like that?

I keep leaving her standing looking at pretty views or in people's gardens because that's what I like to do to stop playing. It's a hangover from Oblivion where I would always leave my character sitting in front of their fires. I don't know why...

I'm not gonna get to play very long tonight but if I could accomplish a house I'd be doing it.

[Verboten]

God I keep on trying to get that house but my impulse control is really bad, so I end up buying a horse or a spell I can't use.

[Vhagar]

Speaking of horses! I have one, I love her, I had to resurrect her once (I'm sorry, I sometimes cheat! Usually on stupid stuff for convenience) but she doesn't stay put! As soon as I jump off to kill something she takes off for home. Bad training!!! Do they all do this or is it because I basically got her for free?

[Sivin]

Watch out, Dragons usually go after the horse first. I have no idea why.

[Howdyphillip]

Speaking of horses! I have one, I love her, I had to resurrect her once (I'm sorry, I sometimes cheat! Usually on stupid stuff for convenience) but she doesn't stay put! As soon as I jump off to kill something she takes off for home. Bad training!!! Do they all do this or is it because I basically got her for free?

I quit using horses almost immediately. I do not like the third person view in this game, they bail on you, and I had a tendency to drop 1000 gold and then have the horse die the first hill I climbed. The Assassin's Dark horse is all right though

[arrowfan]

If I take the oath with the Imperial Legion, will it limit my ability to join the Storm-cloaks and umm... be a turn-cloak? I ultimately want to smash those Imperial Legion assholes.

[The Winged Wolf Bran Stark]

Personally, I plan to do the Civil War quest after I finish up the main quest... whenever that is. I've just been going around doing stuff. Honestly, neither side appeals to me. The Stormcloaks are a bunch of racists, and I hear that if you join up with them, you eventually

sack Whiterun, which I really don't want to do.

On the Imperial side, they seem decent, but I do not look forward to working with the Thalmor. I took great pleasure in attacking one of their outposts for a mission (with the missing family member from Whiterun).

Anyway, I got married to Aela today, and I was a bit surprised by how she changed so suddenly. Calling me dear and stuff.

[Sharpes]

Only a matter of time I suppose:

Eddard Stark

http://www.skyrimnex...file.php?id=982

Jaimie Lannister

http://www.skyrimnex...ile.php?id=1012

I want my Bronn char darnit!

[Vhagar]

I quit using horses almost immediately. I do not like the third person view in this game, they bail on you, and I had a tendency to drop 1000 gold and then have the horse die the first hill I climbed. The Assassin's Dark horse is all right though

It has taken me a long time to adjust to riding the horses. I have had to work at it. I think I only keep bothering because I love them in RL! :lol: I have to say. my little draft horse nearly killed a mage on her own tonight! But then she took off while I was looting the bodies. Ah well.

Random bandits keep telling my Khajiit that she'd make a fine rug. She doesn't think this is nice so she kills them. :devil:

I've got her in the Dark Brotherhood. Haven't started the quests for that yet, though.

[Verboten]

Goddamnit what is the point of being a werewolf if you can only heal yourself with a convenient corpse?! I was rudely interrupted by an ice troll earlier and my claws did nothing. Also I really want to join the Thieves Guild but I keep on getting sidetracked there are too many delicious sidequests

[Sylphic]

I think I'm on my 6th or 7th horse. They sure can find some creative ways to die.

I also bought a war dog for 500g but was really bummed when he died on the first quest I took him along for. :(

[denstorebog]

1) Does Obsidian make better stories than BioWare?

I'd have to say that while a lot of people love sucking Bioware's proverbial storytelling cocks, I suspect that most of these people are also those who still consider Forgotten Realms books the pinnacle of fantasy storytelling. I have played most of Bioware's games by now, and it's completely clear that what Bioware are doing is recycling completely basic high fantasy plots instead of trying to innovate in any way. The only, ONLY attempt at trying to do anything smart I've ever seen from them was Dragon Age 2 with the lifespan concept, but even that degenerated into their trademark 'kill some dude infused with evil energy, glowing eyes and a demonic voice' shit they churn out like cupcakes.

Obsidian, as someone mentioned, try to do more than this. I should mention that when I say Obsidian, I really mean Chris Avellone and that it includes the stuff they did as Black Isle. KOTOR2 was a truly interesting attempt at tackling the Star Wars Expanded Universe, which is normally associated with the trite tween storytelling that Bioware did with KOTOR1.And Planescape Torment is of course the pinnacle of innovative storytelling in games (along with DX1). Bioware does "find artifact, use it to kill big enemy" plots. Obsidian tries more than that. One example of Obsidian slipping up completely is NWN2, which had a shite Bioware plot.

[Neal]

I think magic needs a big increase to damage.

The starting magicka pool of 100 is paltry and completely inadequate since you're supposed to be fighting with magic more or less 100% of the time if you're a pure mage. I gave myself 300 magicka via console commands and this was fine and good for regular enemies.

Extra tough enemies and bosses, however, are flat-out unreasonable to kill with magic. They have massive, MASSIVE health pools; even when they don't drain magicka, and many of them do, my mana pool allows me six to twelve firebolts before I run dry. This makes barely a dent in their health bars. There's a more powerful spell called Fireball that does more damage, but it doesnt do much more to their health bar and it costs like 86 mana per cast so I can manage three or four of those before I run out. Let me remind you that I have nearly TRIPLE the Magicka I'm "supposed" to have.

Meanwhile, they can kill you in a few hits. This is especially true as a mage, since you're probably wearing light armor, and have been putting most of your level-up points into magicka instead of health so you can actually use your weapons. (Also, the fact that your level up gives you a paltry ten points in that stat is a fucking joke. That means each level lets you maybe cast an additional 1/4 of a firebolt.)

*snip*

Do additional points in Destruction skill -- the skill, not perks -- make spells do more damage? I also gave myself a bunch of extra points in that, so I could buy some of the perks, but I'm not really seeing much difference, so I don't know if it affects anything besides which perks you're eligible for.

Agreed for the most part. I started off with every intention of going pure mage but it's turned into me shooting a few firebolts at people and then switching to board and sword to finish everyone off. I've got more points in one handed attack now than destruction and my light armour is pretty high too. I've been smithing a lot too, so now I'm so weird smith/one handed guy with a few spells. The trick must be in maxing out enchanting and them having everything you wear with reduce magic cost enchantments.

In other words, I have no idea. Still fun though :)