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Sandor Clegane v. 9


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Jumping to another scene a bit - the fact that Sandor beat Lord Beric while hungover AND terrified of fire is his BAMFiest moment, I think.

And Beric was clearly dead. I mean - a dead man. With a flaming sword. In a dark cave. I was scared just reading it.

I agree, it was his finest moment. Because he faced his fear - and overcame it.

That scene was so awesome.

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To be fair to Tyrion, it was a highly stressful situation and he had a lot on his mind at the moment. I can see why it didn't immediately register with him.

I'm torn between the Lord Beric fight and his fight with Polliver and the Tickler as his most badass moment. I think I might lean toward the latter. With Polly and the Tickler, he wasn't just hungover but flat-out drunk, and he was fighting two men instead of just one (thought admittedly neither had a ~super magic sword~ like Beric did). The fact that he finished them both off in such a condition -- and I say "both" because it seemed pretty clear that he would've taken down the Tickler even if Arya hadn't intervened -- speaks volumes about his BAMFiness. Plus, I just love that moment when the Hound seems all but defeated and Polliver's all "Just give up, you've lost, you're drunk" and Sandor's just like, "Maybe, but you're dead," and then in the blink of an eye he kicks the bench at him, trips him up, and finishes him off. That was pretty cool.

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And Beric was clearly dead. I mean - a dead man. With a flaming sword. In a dark cave. I was scared just reading it.

I agree, it was his finest moment. Because we faces his fear - and overcame it.

That scene was so awesome.

:agree:

That was great because he is surrounded by people who really want him dead, facing a dead man with a flaming sword, in a cave in the middle of nowhere, all while his arm is on fire.

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Oh, I'd forgotten about his arm being on fire. Yes, that may tip the scales back in favor of his fight with Lord Beric...

And fear is a pretty powerful thing. Sandor wasn't afraid of Polliver and the Tickler. He was TERRIFIED of Beric and the sword.

Fighting through fear = awesomeness incarnate.

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Oh, I definitely wasn't praising his decision to get drunk in the first place, as it was really stupid. I was more just boggling at the fact that he's a good enough fighter to take down two seasoned swordsmen while being completely shit-faced.

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Oh, I definitely wasn't praising his decision to get drunk in the first place, as it was really stupid. I was more just boggling at the fact that he's a good enough fighter to take down two seasoned swordsmen while being completely shit-faced.

I think it was a stupid decision too, but as a plot device he had to get drunk, otherwise there'd have been no contest, Sandor would have killed them fairly easily, finished his wine and trotted off no worse for wear all the while thinking about the little bird that flew away.

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I would actually deduct BAMF points because he got drunk so fast in the presence of Polliver & Co. I know he was drowning his sorrows about his Little Bird, but how did he not learn his lesson from the last time he got toasted and then was captured by the Huntsman?

I think that it just shows how badass he is. In front of him there are some very nasty people, his brother's people. Does he give a damn? No, he has important stuff on his mind, who cares about those killers, anyway?

Stupid? Undoubtedly. BAMF? You bet.

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I would actually deduct BAMF points because he got drunk so fast in the presence of Polliver & Co. I know he was drowning his sorrows about his Little Bird, but how did he not learn his lesson from the last time he got toasted and then was captured by the Huntsman?

An alcoholic cannot learn from his faults... sorry to say, I am sad also to face with the fact, but he is alcoholic. Hopefully the QI has also an effect to this, and he will have a healthier life in all means.

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To be fair to Tyrion, it was a highly stressful situation and he had a lot on his mind at the moment. I can see why it didn't immediately register with him.

Tyrion realized Sandor was afraid of fire during the mob scene, when he ordered Bronn and Sandor to go back out and make sure the fires didn't spread past Flea Bottom.

An alcoholic cannot learn from his faults... sorry to say, I am sad also to face with the fact, but he is alcoholic. Hopefully the QI has also an effect to this, and he will have a healthier life in all means.

I wonder if he was an alcoholic... Self-medicating & substance abusing for sure but if I was to pick a poster child for alcoholism in Westeros, it would be Ser Dontos.

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I think Sandor is an alcoholic whereas Dontos is just a drunkard.

They're both alcoholics, just different kinds. Sandor is what you'd call a functioning alcoholic. He drinks, but he can still act normally. That can often be the most dangerous kind, because they don't realize they have a problem since it doesn't generally affect their every day life.

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I think it was a stupid decision too, but as a plot device he had to get drunk, otherwise there'd have been no contest, Sandor would have killed them fairly easily, finished his wine and trotted off no worse for wear all the while thinking about the little bird that flew away.

This ^^

Thread No. 9. Wowzers :) Anyhow, my thoughts are... The more I think about it, the less I believe the possibility that he's just dead. George RR may have that nasty surprise in store but damn it, I ain't buying it. Something just doesn't add up to that conclusion. Actually, a lot of somethings, and I'm going to lay them out for discussion/consideration:

1. He's played too big of a role, and played a central role in not one, but two of our main POV characters' lives.

With both Arya and Sansa he has had a supporting role to developing certain qualities out of the girls.

With Arya that quality was mercy, which is something Arya desperately needed to learn. It's going to be the crux between her using her fighting skills in a healthy way rather than in a serial-assassin kill-everyone way. Though I would not say he is Arya's biggest teacher, what he did show her will turn up to be important. I think Arya has always been on the edge of losing herself in her anger, but if she tempers her justice with mercy, I believe she will become a more noble fighter and always keep her identity (Arya has always reminded me a lot of Ned because of her sense of justice).

He is Sansa's single biggest influence in these books, I would wager to claim. He has taught her to be aware, to be realistic, and I would say, how to pick her battles in life. Furthermore, via their relationship he has shown her that she is a person, not a claim, and that she is a great person, at that. He has reshaped her defining qualities of someone noble and brave, and has opened her eyes to see things past the surface of a person (their looks, for example?) and to find out how they really are. He is the protection she clings to, and as speculated it it probably their parting memory that has allowed her to keep a hold on her identity whilst in the Vale. (As far as the noble aspect goes, Sansa reminded me of Dad in the beginning, but I think Sandor has aided her in figuring out how to be noble, but not asdgjlkfl I don't want to say stupid, because Ned isn't, but you know, he made some bad decisions clinging onto a rigid standard of honor...)

2. His character arc isn't through, yet, imo.

In my personal opinion, Sandor's story arc is still going, and he ought to be around to see it through. I think there is still some work to be done. He needs to find some closure with the situation about his brother... whether that's through fighting, or another way, it needs to be seen. That storyline has been too big a deal in Sandor's life to not be contended with one way or another. Finally, I also think he's hit rock bottom in his story arc, but we haven't seen the recovery stage, if you will. The part we last saw him in, where he was with Arya, and crying and telling her things about Sansa (etc), that was the rock bottom, I believe. But we have to see what happens after the breakdown.

3. The textual evidence is highly suspect.

First off, the Elder Brother makes a distinction in between being dead, and a part of a person being behind them when he tells his own life story. As to Sandor, he says the Hound is buried, but Sandoris a rest. Seemingly two different things.

The horse is there. Sure, a horse is a valuable thing.......but it could be an indication of something else, or another thing to back up what I already suspect: which is that Sandor is alive.

Lastly, the effing gravedigger. Why bother to mention that side character at all? There was no reason to. The author wants us to at least consider that character, and the most viable person to be that GD is Sandor... Something is fishy on the QI and yet I smell no decay.

The man is alive. Whether he emerges from the isle anytime soon, or for what provocation.....remains to be seen.

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BTW, he didn't lose his horse. When he says he lost a third of his men, "horse too," he's referring to the horse component of the troops he led into battle. I wondered about that until I read somewhere in the So Spake Martin stuff that GRRM referred to that as "horse" not "the horses."

Ehm, he did loose a horse. He rode a horse in at least one of the sorties. In the scene where Davos sees him riding up the plank to one of the ships, slashing left and right. Seriously BAMF

We know he's good: this is the guy who cut his way through a raving mob to save Sansa, did in some of Gregor's most fearsome men with only a child for backup, and killed Beric even with his sword aflame. But, really... would he stand a chance against Gregor himself?

He could hold his own against Gregor in the tourney, so that is a yes. But Robert Strong is another kind of player, dunno what the outcome would be if they fought. Obviously I hope Sandor would still win, but........

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I can't say that I agree that he was Sansa's single biggest influence, he's important, but I think that the Lannisters themselves are almost solely responsible for showing her that what is pretty on the outside has nothing to do with what's on the inside. I hope that he emerges as the person to show her that what is ugly on the outside can be nice on the inside.

He is Sansa's single biggest influence in these books, I would wager to claim. He has taught her to be aware, to be realistic, and I would say, how to pick her battles in life.

The horse is there. Sure, a horse is a valuable thing.......but it could be an indication of something else, or another thing to back up what I already suspect: which is that Sandor is alive.

IA that Stranger still being at the QI is important, he may be valuable but not to the Brothers, if Sandor was dead, wouldn't they have just sold him and gotton a plowhorse or something that is useful to them?

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Ehm, he did loose a horse. He rode a horse in at least one of the sorties. In the scene where Davos sees him riding up the plank to one of the ships, slashing left and right. Seriously BAMF

He rode his horse up the plank of one of the ships, yes, but why do you think it was killed? Davos observes the Hound riding a big horse up the plank onto one of the ships, slashing at everyone around him. That's all we see of him from during the battle.

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He rode his horse up the plank of one of the ships, yes, but why do you think it was killed? Davos observes the Hound riding a big horse up the plank onto one of the ships, slashing at everyone around him. That's all we see of him from during the battle.

No, i have to contradict, He definitely haven't lost a horse at the battle, because when they arrive to the Red Wedding with Arya, one of the knights have nearly discovered them because of the horse. the Hound says then that if he had rode in that moment the knight would have recognized him, because this is the horse he used at the tourney when he was fighting with that knight. He has lost a horse earlier, it is mentionned that some times earlier he had lost a horse at a tourney but it was before the start of the story we know, it was just mentionned somewhere.

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And fear is a pretty powerful thing. Sandor wasn't afraid of Polliver and the Tickler. He was TERRIFIED of Beric and the sword.

Fighting through fear = awesomeness incarnate.

Killing the no-one-can-kill-waving-a-sword-on-fire Beric Dondarrion in a poorly lighted cave full with men of the BWB, with an extreme hangover and the shield arm caught on fire, plus a huge and overwhelming trauma-originated fear of fire is quite an extraordinary thing to do. And Sandor goes through all that like a boss.

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