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The Citadel's Grand Conspiracy


Fire Eater

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If the Citadel was indeed behind poisoning the dragons then it would not be too far fetched to think that they may have also poisoned the Targs as well, especially since there are poisons which can cause insanity such as Basilisk paste (mentioned in another thread in the General Forum called "Poisons that Cause Insanity"). As mentioned before the Citadel must have been aware of the prophecies. In addition, they must have known that the Targs were aware of the prophecies as well. Throughout the history of the Targs there were attempts by them to resurrect dragons, so I think every time a Targ tried to resurrect a dragon the Maesters of the Citadel were probably quaking in their boots and wanting to prevent it. However, they were not as successful with the Targs as they were with the dragons.



Finally, when the opportunity came to completely overthrow the Targs the Citadel took it and Pycelle convinced Aerys to open the gates of KL to the Lannisters. Perhaps the "game of thrones" itself was devised and developed by the Citadel itself to help control the nobility.


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Considering the effect Varamyr attempting to warg into a human had on the human, I would say it is INSANELY destructive. Imagine how useful his ability is - even if he can't control a human, he can drive them so insane they tear themselves apart, even after he has already left their body. An assassin could just warg briefly into his target then back out, and everyone would think they just went mad.

Which would be a handy way to get Theon's father to appear to have accidentally slipped and fallen from that bridge/walkway.

Exactly! Euron has no need to hire FM to kill Balon when he is himself a warg and can make Balon fall off a bridge without anyone else's help, and without being seen doing it. The hint that Euron is a warg is from his question to Victarion about flying, and his pirate flag sigil. It seems Euron was scouted as a greenseer by Bloodraven when he was younger, but I guess he flunked/refused the tryouts for treedom.

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Balon didn't accidentally slip and fall ..



The shabby little captain nodded. “You know how Pyke’s built on a headland, and part on rocks and islands off the shore, with bridges between? The way I heard it in Lordsport, there was a blow coming in from the west, rain and thunder, and old King Balon was crossing one of them bridges when the wind got hold of it and just tore the thing to pieces. He washed up two days later, all bloated and broken. Crabs ate his eyes, I hear.” ... ASOS



Lordsport is so close to the action that the tale wouldn't have grown much in the telling and elsewhere Euron says ... "I am the storm, my lord.The first storm, and the last."



I don't really agree that the hints of him being a skinchanger are very strong at all.. while his connection to the warlocks is strong , though it's not entirely clear who actually has the upper hand.

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Balon didn't accidentally slip and fall ..

The shabby little captain nodded. You know how Pykes built on a headland, and part on rocks and islands off the shore, with bridges between? The way I heard it in Lordsport, there was a blow coming in from the west, rain and thunder, and old King Balon was crossing one of them bridges when the wind got hold of it and just tore the thing to pieces. He washed up two days later, all bloated and broken. Crabs ate his eyes, I hear. ... ASOS

Lordsport is so close to the action that the tale wouldn't have grown much in the telling and elsewhere Euron says ... "I am the storm, my lord.The first storm, and the last."

I don't really agree that the hints of him being a skinchanger are very strong at all.. while his connection to the warlocks is strong , though it's not entirely clear who actually has the upper hand.

I'm on the fence when it comes to the Faceless for hire killing Balon, and I like where you are going with this idea. I don't know if the warlock's arsenal contains storm power, but it is possible. The funny thing is the storm god is the enemy of the worshipers of the drowned god. And Aeron claims Euron is an ungodly man.

Then there is the crows which are minions of the storm god, according to Aeron.

The Children are associated with bringing storms (Hammer of the Waters, shattering the Arm of Dorne) and the ravens and crows are on their team also

So has Euron tapped into the powers of the old gods? Is he making it up as he goes along, bringing in whatever power that he can utilize?

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I'm on the fence when it comes to the Faceless for hire killing Balon, and I like where you are going with this idea. I don't know if the warlock's arsenal contains storm power, but it is possible. The funny thing is the storm god is the enemy of the worshipers of the drowned god. And Aeron claims Euron is an ungodly man.

Then there is the crows which are minions of the storm god, according to Aeron.

The Children are associated with bringing storms (Hammer of the Waters, shattering the Arm of Dorne) and the ravens and crows are on their team also

So has Euron tapped into the powers of the old gods? Is he making it up as he goes along, bringing in whatever power that he can utilize?

Euron already used blood sacrifices to summon good winds in taking the Shields. Summoning storms should not be so different that summoning good winds.

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I don't think magic comes from any god, to be honest. Magic is real and some people attribute some magic to some gods. But are there really any gods, or is it all just nature (including magic) .. whether universal or terrestrial? Belief takes on a life of it's own.. maybe it's just "Power resides where men believe it resides " in a spiritual context , instead of political.



I think Euron would use any magic at all - from any system of magic, attributed to any god - as long as he could get results.



I don't think the Faceless Men would accept a contract from Euron , even for a dragon egg. For political reasons, if for no others... And I doubt Mr."I-say-we-take-it-all" would be willing to pay the kind of price they normally exact. The man is a reaver and a pirate . Would they trust him to pay? Would they trust that if he did pay, he wouldn't steal the payment back ( or something of equal or greater value )? .. I wouldn't , if I were them.


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  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Is there any hint whatsoever in the text for that theory? What would the Maesters have to gain from such a ploy? Especially since they themselves are put at great risk by it?

Who is vulnerable to grey scale?

Supposedly, it is Garin's curse aimed at the Valyrians.

People randomly become sick- 10 men are exposed, none or some may become ill.

What if it isn't random, but is targeted- literally a magic disease?

We know it's feared in Essos- where people with a few drops of Valyrian blood abound

We know the wildlings- ripe, apparently, with wargs- fear its outbreak and see it regularly

We know that it ran rampant at least once through Oldtown.

Assume Maesters have an anti-magic agenda. Assume grey scale only affects those with the gift or "talent" for magic. The plague could have been them culling their own- recall, the maesters aren't completely chaste, and at one time, the sorcerers of Westeros would theoretically have been gathered in Oldtown as Maesters, so all those descendents would be culled by such an outbreak.

Just saying, it's like unleashing a blight on Bike Mikes so your preferred banana strain could take off.

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  • 5 months later...

I can quite buy the theory that the Maesters (or some at least) are behind the fall of Dragons and the Targaryens.



They have power, connections and an incredibly reliable network.


Merwyn saying that there is no place for magic in the world they are building is the clearest of clues.



I would be marvelling at how unimportant the Maesters are in the TV show, though. And since the two narrations (book and show) must arrive at the same point i would be amazed to discover at season 6 that the Maesters really account for something, in the end.



G


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  • 2 weeks later...

I am down for a conspiracy about the Maesters for many of the reasons above. Like the Hightowers, we just dont have that much actual information about them, although the Maesters have been right in the middle of the action since the very beginning with Luwin, Pycelle, Aemon, and the duo out on Dragonstone.



One potential piece that hasnt seemed to be touched upon in this thread is their relationship with Valyrian Steel, which raises a ton of questions in my mind. First off - they have it, and they have it in some stores, since you can make a link out of it (tiny amount), but we also see the rod and mask of a certain Maester as well. So they are either hoarding some steel, or have been acquiring more as they went along, either way is sketchy. Have they been collecting the blades of the Houses that have fallen from influence? A Maester would have been assigned to each castle, so they would have possibly been able to steal away with valuables such as a blade if a Lord or heirs were killed somewhere along the way.



Also, how are they working this? From the text, we hear that the mysteries of working Valyrian Steel have been lost with Valyria, except for the metalsmiths of Qohor (random!?), and Tobho Mott. Is Mott the one reworking VS into links, or masks, or iron rods, as directed by the Maesters? Do they have their own in-house smith? Are we going to explore just how someone like Mott ended up setting up shop in KL, possessing lost magic knowledge, and running a trippy shop that has allusions to some pretty wild supernatural forces all over it? (Doors of ebony and wierwood, griffin and unicorn by the door). Is there some kind of connection between the Maesters and Qohor - which itself has some serious connections to dark magic and Valyrians.



Does this somehow tie back to Marwyn, who at some point traveled WAY east when he taught MMD, and possibly went through Qohor? Because (I am full crackpot here, I know), one other person has some connection to Marwyn, blood magic, and Qohor....Qyburn.



ETA spelling.


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  • 1 month later...

tjm335.. I'm hoping, between Sam and Arya, both the Citadel and the Faceless Men will have some light shed on them. But I have some other niggling uncertainties as well as the ones you mention.

I"m thinking there won't be an alliance ? contract ? between the Faceless Men and Euron because since Braavos was founded by those escaping Valyria and the Dragonlords , I don't think they'll feel like helping anyone acquire a host of Dragons. As Tycho Nestoris tells Jon , Dragons are not a subject for joking in Braavos.

I've wondered about the "Dwarf" woman's visions.. Whether she meant the faceless man on the bridge with the seaweedy crow on his shoulder was an actual Faceless Man or just a man whose face she couldn't see ? On the one hand, he could be an unidentified man sent by Euron , or Euron himself ...waiting for Balon . On the other hand ,it could take place in the future ; he could be a genuine Faceless Man with a contract on Euron ( contract = crow) , taken out by someone else , perhaps because Euron has an interest in acquiring dragons , and knowing his ruthless , rapacious nature. ( I can't quite remember if she said the crow was dead or drowned . The seaweed was dripping from it's wet wings )

( .. Aside : Dany must be an enigma to Braavos . She has dragons , but she's freeing slaves everywhere she goes. ..And , um , what's up with Daario ? ..)

With a key to open every door in the Citadel , Jaqen / Pate could be learning quite a lot..I wonder if he can see with the candle ? Hope we get some clarity on his agenda in TWoW.

I hope Marwyn is an agent of much needed change in the Citadel and not just a baddie..( Because I think there're enough baddies and blindies in the Citadel as it is .)

 

As far as I can tell Balon is the first victim of Melisandre's Eadric Storm Leeches which she puts into the fire. 3 Leeches, 3 Kings dead (Balon, Robb, Joffrey). It is possible that Euron may have just been the enacting agency but no need to involve Faceless Men to do it. The Faceless Men probably want nothing to do with Euron anyways, way to hard to control and wants to have to much to do with Dragons of all stripes.

Beyond which, for me at least, having to use a human agent to pull it off, based on the description of what happened from the text, seems to detract from the power and mystique of Mel/Rhllor from a stroytelling perspective. She's clearly proven in her hands that King's Blood can work strong magic's. Is there any reason to believe that she couldn't have done this with a separate highly specialized ritual that what was needed to make shadow babies, like the weird leech ritual ( notice lots of weird leeching stuff all over the books, not just Roose) ?

Human agents were used in the other two kings death so it is not out of the realm of possibility for Euron to be there and have done it, and he is that kind of guy. I'm just going on what the text indicates.

To me it seems the text indicates she and "her faith in R'hllor" did it.

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