(ADwD Spoilers) Dany the Mad Queen

[needamazing]

Another thing she did that makes you think. I think I remember that she actually bought the Unsullied army but then had the army kill the people she bought them from so she never had to actually pay for the army. at least something like that. Kind of dishonorable.

Also, it's pretty obvious that Arya is eventually going to be sent to assassinate someone very important. I have always been struggling with who that was going to be. But now if Dany turns bad, what villain being assassiated would most affect their cause that would also being vulnerable is separated from her dragons or if a warg distracts them? I think Arya will be sent to assassinate Dany.

[brashcandy]

I'm sure you realize that just declaring that points have no merit doesn't actually render them merit-less, right? Surely you're not just dismissing contrary points of view as "merit-less" just because you disagree?

Oh would I do that, tze? I'm sure you're able to recognize some of the ones you spout well enough.

First, she is demonstrably wrong. That's not even debatable. Many Targaryens died during the Great Spring Sickness. Her great-great-uncle, Prince Dareon, died of a pox he caught from a whore. Targaryens are not immune to sickness.

And second, believing yourself to be genetically superior to ordinary people, to the point where you believe your special blood makes you invulnerable to disease, is a pretty obvious slippery slope. GRRM has told us of other Targaryens who believed they were genetically superior to 'ordinary' people. Aerion Brightflame, for example, who believed he was a dragon in human form. Dany justifies her belief that she can't get sick by asking Barristan if he's ever seen a dragon with the bloody flux. At many points throughout ADWD Dany talks about herself as if she is a dragon in human form. Dany thinks she's superhuman. It's not a large leap to start believing that, if dragon blood saves her from the ravages of sickness, then logically it must also give other properties, like maybe she can heal others using her magic blood? Maybe dragons are natural rulers, so of course Dany can't really make mistakes like an ordinary person. Humans are fallible, dragons are not. Slippery slope.

This is the weakest argument for a slippery slope I've seen in a long time. So - Dany believes that she's immune to sickness and specifically asserts this in an effort to help people who are suffering, and you stretch this to make an argument that she believes she's superhuman so now she just may start to think she's a natural ruler who doesn't make mistakes. Really now, tze? This isn't even a rational deduction. You're on a slippery slope, not Dany.

So she's very good at reading people, except of course when she isn't?

Ummmm... yes. Unless you want her to be the kind of superhuman, infallible dragon you were just claiming she was on her way to becoming. People make errors in judgement, but Dany has shown that she's quite intelligent and intuitive on the motives of others. She wasn't blind to what Hizdahr wanted for example - she simply made a deal with him that would satisfy both their agendas. She knew that Quentyn didn't come for love or romance, but for fire and blood. She was suspicious of her advisors, but she also had to work with them to rebuild the city. She knew from the start that Xaro was a fake, and his declarations of desire were ludicrous, but she was hoping to find mutual ground. She's quite sharp actually, but it seems nothing less than crystal ball like powers of perception will satisfy some readers.

I've looked through all of these books and the prequel novellas, and wouldn't you know it, there's no Rhaegar POVs detailing the exact levels of his obsession with prophecy. And no POVs describing how Rhaegar's thought process and plans were altered by prophecies. For all we know, this is exactly how Rhaegar acted with prophecies. So please, tell me again how she "isn't by any means like her brother Rhaegar"?

Good lord. We know that something Rhaegar read something on prophecy that made him decide that one of his children was the PTWP. We have no hard evidence, but it seems fair to assume that he became obsessed with this fact and may have even put aside his ailing wife Elia so that he could get another woman pregnant. This sounds like a pretty big alteration in thought processes and plans. But ok, let's assume Rhaegar wasn't obsessed with prophecy. Please show me how Dany is obsessed with it herself?

Which Dany hasn't ever done. She's been facing sellsword companies and slave soldiers led by merchant princes. She hasn't faced anybody like Randall Tarly, Jon Connington, or Stannis Baratheon. Westerosi Lords are generally expected to be warriors; Great Masters of Meereen, Astapor, and Yunkai are not. Slave soldiers, especially ones who weren't even trained as soldiers, were expected to break and come over to Dany's side. Westerosi knights and conscripted soldiers will not do that. GRRM has described a lot of battles and the soldiers follow their lords, they don't follow the person they individually think would be the best ruler. If they did, they'd all have to prepare to move, cause they could never return to their homes as their lords wouldn't take betrayal lightly. That's the whole nature of feudalism.

Really now, I'm yet to see what this has to do with anything. You have Aegon there on Westeros before Dany who is going about basically the same script Dany would have to follow except he lacks the added bonus of dragons. As for these stalwarts of battle that you've mentioned, don't make me laugh. Jon Connington is stricken with greyscale, Stannis Baratheon is near death and starving, and Randyll Tarly is a snake in the grass. The situation in Westeros is anyone's game, and everyone realises it. It has nothing to do with not having faced "warriors" and everything to do with capitalising on the weaknesses in political alliances and a war weary landscape full of disenchanted peasants.

Not wrong. She told him she didn't know about the first Daenerys. She certainly tells Barristan how she already knows all about the usurper's dogs. Anyone who can think that the Starks and the Lannisters are the same (culturally, historically, even religiously) doesn't know Westerosi culture. And if she's so keen on learning, how is it that she's had no discussions with Barristan or Jorah? Jorah, especially. It's not like they had a ton else to do while wandering in the Red Waste.

This has nothing to do with the Starks and Lannisters having different cultural or religious values. The fact is that Dany was right - they were all the usurper's dogs. The truth is that she doesn't know much about Westeros - its history, especially; but she still considers it her homeland and is willing to know more about it. The one thing she has resisted is the full truth of her father, that is all.

You wrote this in response to my pointing out that the Starks are all skinchangers. You do realize that none of these points make the Starks "not" skinchangers, right?

My bad, I'll spell it out: If she is able to ally with them then she'll be able to use those skinchanging powers to her advantage. Currently though, Bran is a tree, Rickon is still a very young boy, Sansa is a pawn, Arya is in Braavos, and Jon is dead or seriously injured. The Starks are not in a great position to be taking over dragons and causing havoc.

First, Dany is hardly the first Targ to walk into a fire. It's practically a family tradition by this point. It's been alleged that the same damn thing happened at Summerhall, yet nobody is trumpeting the great bravery and sacrifice Aegon V undertook to try and hatch those dragon eggs. They call it the Tragedy at Summerhall. Walking into a fire is generally a pretty stupid thing to do, especially when you don't know what the hell you're doing in the first place.

Ah, but that's the thing. She KNEW what she was doing. It wasn't guess work like her past ancestors. That's why she told MMD she wanted her life, not her screams. Plus, her efforts are being trumpeted by many across the land, as a great act of bravery and sacrifice.

I'll ignore the rest of your argument because we've been over it, and are not going to agree ever.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Interesting theory.

I started the series hard-core rooting for Dany and by the time I finished ADWD, I was done with her. I'm not sure she'll turn out to be a true "villain," the way Cersei is, but I have to think that the early-and-often characterization of her as a savior of some sort is probably a sleight of hand/misdirection. I'm probably overly cynical at this point, but I've gotten in the habit of assuming that when Martin has someone say something, the opposite is probably true. Dany has everyone from Master Aemon to eastern red priests swearing up and down that she's going to save the world. (You know who hasn't had a character in-story describe him as being a global savior of any kind? Jon.)

People keep talking about Dany and her dragons, yet, near as I can tell, she's only nominally "in possession" of them. Drogon's going wherever he damn well pleases and Viserion and Rhaegal have basically gone feral. She may take control over them at some point (bearing in mind that apparently you can only "master" one dragon and if you count Drogon, her quota's up), but I think so far the dragons have been more of a PR boon than practical tools for an invasion.

I'm most curious to see how Dany reacts to Aegon and/or Jon. If Aegon is real (which I doubt) and Jon is legitimate (which I don't doubt), Dany goes from being the scion to being second in line (Aegon as monarch, Jon as first in line). So much of her drive to reclaim the Iron Throne has to do with her ideas of legitimacy and legal right. So is she going to put her money where her mouth is and submit to Aegon and/or Jon, or will she be a hypocrite and say, "I have dragons and you don't, I win"? If it's the latter, then her entire hatred of Robert will have been unfounded, given that she's doing pretty much just what he did.

I love this theory. I've always presumed that ADwD is a story about two things:

1) Dany's downfall (the optimistic ending is just a deception, in the first books she went from strength to strength, NOW she'll go down)

2) Jon's ascent (the pessimistic ending is a trick, obviously, and he had so much bad things happen to him that he has nowhere to go but upwards)

Neat way of thinking about it. We're sort of led to think that Dany is liberated and Jon is doomed at the end. Maybe it's the other way around.

[Clementine]

The point about Dany believing she is genetically different and therefore immune to disease could potentially be used to justify her superiority to the common people, but I think its clear from the books that Dany herself doesn't actually believe that she is. She is quite compassionate, even if she often doesn't find the best outlets for it.

The Targaryens IMO represent the classic 'fire' personality: extroverted, rebellious, passionate, enthusiastic and charismatic, but can also be moody, hot-tempered and emotional. Dany is pure Targaryen, and perhaps at this point in the story her negative 'fire traits' are dominating. But I don't think this means she will end up mad, a villain, or is fundamentally incapable of change. The reason why Barristan Selmy and others have not told Dany the truth yet about her family and father is possibly for reasons of future plot - it might serve the story better for Dany to learn the truth from Jon or another Stark.

[tze]

The point about Dany believing she is genetically different and therefore immune to disease could potentially be used to justify her superiority to the common people, but I think its clear from the books that Dany herself doesn't actually believe that she is. She is quite compassionate, even if she often doesn't find the best outlets for it.

Dany does genuinely believe that her "dragon blood" protects her from the pale mare:

The stench of the camp was so appalling it was all that Dany could do not to gag. Ser Barristan wrinkled up his nose, and said, “Your Grace should not be here, breathing these black humors.”

“I am the blood of the dragon,” Dany reminded him. “Have you ever seen a dragon with the flux?” Viserys had oft claimed that Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.

[Clementine]

Dany does genuinely believe that her "dragon blood" protects her from the pale mare:

Oh, what I meant was that she doesn't think her supposed genetic superiority gives her leave to trample on people. She thinks it gives her an obligation to help the less fortunate.

It is a problematic thing to believe, and its quite paternalistic, but it doesn't make her mad/villainous etc. Just in need of better education

[tze]

Oh, what I meant was that she doesn't think her supposed genetic superiority gives her leave to trample on people. She thinks it gives her an obligation to help the less fortunate.

It is a problematic thing to believe, and its quite paternalistic, but it doesn't make her mad/villainous etc. Just in need of better education

My issue is the slippery slope argument: Dany believes being a Targaryen means she is physically unlike other human beings. Dany's deluded about the capabilities of her "magic blood", and I do think that's a hint that she's going to take this idea further in the future (otherwise why stick it in the narrative at all?). And the idea that she's just naturally superior to "ordinary" people, to the point where disease itself is defeated by her awesomeness, is something that can spiral very quickly into something very, very nasty. Right now, the "common people" are the freedmen, and she wants to help them because they love her and validate her.

But how will Dany react to people in Westeros who don't call her "mother", who don't rush to join her cause because they're too busy trying not to freeze or starve? What if they rise up against her and her armies because she can't feed them and her armies are taking all of their precious food? Dany has a ready-made justification for why she's inherently right and everyone who opposes her is inherently wrong (she's the last true blood of the dragon and they're just not). I think this is a very, very dangerous road to start down. This is the sort of notion that can mutate very quickly into something very destructive.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

My issue is the slippery slope argument: Dany believes being a Targaryen means she is physically unlike other human beings. Dany's deluded about the capabilities of her "magic blood", and I do think that's a hint that she's going to take this idea further in the future (otherwise why stick it in the narrative at all?). And the idea that she's just naturally superior to "ordinary" people, to the point where disease itself is defeated by her awesomeness, is something that can spiral very quickly into something very, very nasty. Right now, the "common people" are the freedmen, and she wants to help them because they love her and validate her.

But how will Dany react to people in Westeros who don't call her "mother", who don't rush to join her cause because they're too busy trying not to freeze or starve? What if they rise up against her and her armies because she can't feed them and her armies are taking all of their precious food? Dany has a ready-made justification for why she's inherently right and everyone who opposes her is inherently wrong (she's the last true blood of the dragon and they're just not). I think this is a very, very dangerous road to start down. This is the sort of notion that can mutate very quickly into something very destructive.

Good way to put it. She's used to slaves adoring her, but the Westerosi aren't slaves.

I know I keep comparing Jon and Dany, but I really do think that ADWD sets them up as foils of sorts. Dany has been taught, from a very young age, that her Targaryen blood was "dragon's blood" and that she was destined for greatness. Jon, on the other hand, has been raised as a bastard and told how (legally) worthless he is. It'd be funny if Dany's blood purity (all fire) actually somehow worked against her, and Jon's mix (part fire, part ice) made him the person who actually fulfilled the prophecy. The girl who thought she was something truly special is, at the end of the day, ordinary, and the guy who always thought he was ordinary is, at the end of the day, something truly special.

Jon and Dany both make blunders in leadership in ADWD. At the end of the book, as has been suggested, it seems like Dany has escaped, had an epiphany, and is on the right track. On the flip side, it looks like Jon has not escaped and is dead or dying. How funny it'd be if it were the opposite.

[MyDogIsNamedDanerys]

Jon and Dany both make blunders in leadership in ADWD. At the end of the book, as has been suggested, it seems like Dany has escaped, had an epiphany, and is on the right track. On the flip side, it looks like Jon has not escaped and is dead or dying. How funny it'd be if it were the opposite.

Or what's infinitely more likely, they will both succeed, become allies and save everyone. There's room for more than one savior of Westeros. I'd put my money on at least four (and none of them are Aegon).

[Clementine]

My issue is the slippery slope argument: Dany believes being a Targaryen means she is physically unlike other human beings. Dany's deluded about the capabilities of her "magic blood", and I do think that's a hint that she's going to take this idea further in the future (otherwise why stick it in the narrative at all?). And the idea that she's just naturally superior to "ordinary" people, to the point where disease itself is defeated by her awesomeness, is something that can spiral very quickly into something very, very nasty. Right now, the "common people" are the freedmen, and she wants to help them because they love her and validate her.

But how will Dany react to people in Westeros who don't call her "mother", who don't rush to join her cause because they're too busy trying not to freeze or starve? What if they rise up against her and her armies because she can't feed them and her armies are taking all of their precious food? Dany has a ready-made justification for why she's inherently right and everyone who opposes her is inherently wrong (she's the last true blood of the dragon and they're just not). I think this is a very, very dangerous road to start down. This is the sort of notion that can mutate very quickly into something very destructive.

It is entirely plausible that she could use her dragon blood superiority complex as justification for stomping on people in Westeros. But it is equally as plausible that she doesn't do this. This is the problem with the slippery slope argument structure. You can argue that A leads to B, and B leads to C, but A, B, and C have to first be established as being facts before the conclusion can be drawn.

So right now, its true that Dany believes she has special blood. But right now, she still doesn't think this special blood means she can stomp on people who don't agree with her( in fact, she feels the opposite, that being special gives her an obligation to help the needy ). She might very well feel like her dragon blood gives her right to stomp on people who disagree, or don't call her Mother later in the series, but until we have text for this, its only speculation that this is what she will do.

Your point about why a detail like this would be included in the narrative: like I said above, you could be right and it could potentially be used to illustrate Dany's descent into cruelty/madness OR it could be just another description of how Viserys warped her worldview. There's textual evidence to support this in the quote you mentioned above:

The stench of the camp was so appalling it was all that Dany could do not to gag. Ser Barristan wrinkled up his nose, and said, “Your Grace should not be here, breathing these black humors.”

“I am the blood of the dragon,” Dany reminded him. “Have you ever seen a dragon with the flux?” Viserys had oft claimed that Targaryens were untroubled by the pestilences that afflicted common men, and so far as she could tell, it was true. She could remember being cold and hungry and afraid, but never sick.

The language used here is very telling: Viserys claimed that this was the case, and as far as she could tell he was right. There are many indications in the text that Dany is in for a major re-evaluation of her identity - Barristan Selmy attempts to do this several times in the books. So its just as reasonable to speculate that this is the direction that the books go in, and Dany looses the false delusions that her batshit!crazy brother planted in her head. My scenario is based on speculation too, but until we have more info, both are possible.

[Black Crow]

But how will Dany react to people in Westeros who don't call her "mother", who don't rush to join her cause because they're too busy trying not to freeze or starve? What if they rise up against her and her armies because she can't feed them and her armies are taking all of their precious food?

Never mind her armies, those dragons are going to take a bit of feeding, especially the rate they're growing...

And seriously, what are the dragons really for? Conquer Westeros? - a real army can do that and Aegon, false or otherwise, is making a start.

Immolate the armies of Wights predicted to be shambling southwards? - if it happens, they could do it, but so could wildfire and what then, what are you going to do with dragons whose only remaining purpose is to grow ever bigger and barbecue everything in sight for snacks?

[Gala]

Dany as a character has the ability to raise passionate debate. Its possible to argue on the one hand that she makes some pretty bad mistakes and has some worrying character defects, and on the other to defend her by citing her youth, inexperience and good intentions.

What I do find worrying is her assumption that the Iron Throne is hers by right without any real thought of why she wants or indeed should be Queen of Westeros, a place she has never seen.

I agree,That was concerning me since she started to think that way. First of all, because Viserys was a male and had a right to claim the throne (as I understood the Iron Throne is passed to the male member of the royal family). Secondly, because she so not Westeros and do not even know that place, the people. Thirdly, because I think she will be quite bloody queen and we know that Westeros is already not peaceful and nice place to live (not mentioning the threat from the North of the Wall). Finally, he is already not fit to rule. Everybody make mistakes, but that's not the point, so far she left only death and fire after her, and thousands suffer - not a great combination for a successful queen (I know she is a young girl, but she seems to think she is an experienced woman).

I also find it quite unpleasant when she thinks of events and people that were involved in the war (Starks, Baratheons, etc): It seems that she don't know even the half of truth (which is also understandable), but she ready to judge them all! she will be unjust queen, but I hope she won't be mad like her father was.

P.s: I think she is obsessed with "the mother of people", because she thinks she won't have any children anymore and the death of her child made some kind of psychological trauma (I pity her).

[ARYa_Nym]

I think Dany is in the same position as Aegon in regards to being a foreigner. They both know Westeros by the second-hand information they have received about it. Aegon may have just been informed more than her.

& if you think about it the remaining Targaryens that can potentially reclaim the throne have suffered. Jon has not been able to go south since he was a baby. Dany and Viserys have not been able to return to Westeros.

Aegon was probably born in Essos since I think he's a Blackfyre and had to stay there until now.

[mediterraneo]

So right now, its true that Dany believes she has special blood. But right now, she still doesn't think this special blood means she can stomp on people who

Your point about why a detail like this would be included in the narrative: like I said above, you could be right and it could potentially be used to illustrate Dany's descent into cruelty/madness OR it could be just another description of how Viserys warped her worldview.

That's why I feel Tze is right when he says that Daenerys is on a slippery slope. She is at risk of taking a dramatically dangerous path, she may even have taken a step on it. He's not saying she already fallen down the slope, or that her first step on that path is irreversible.

Tze is just saying that the danger is there.

The language used here is very telling: Viserys claimed that this was the case, and as far as she could tell he was right. There are many indications in the text that Dany is in for a major re-evaluation of her identity - Barristan Selmy attempts to do this several times in the books. So its just as reasonable to speculate that this is the direction that the books go in, and Dany looses the false delusions that her batshit!crazy brother planted in her head. My scenario is based on speculation too, but until we have more info, both are possible.

And that gives us an answer over how much our beloved girl knows of her own family history. Robb never got south of the wall before the war, but he did study with a Maester something of it. Aegon too was thought something of it. If Viserys Targarien, who himself stopped being teached very young, is her only teacher, she has a problem. When in the red sand, she and Mormont were trying to survive, not thinking of Westeros. And Selmy is training knights for her, not teaching her history and customs of the seven kingdoms. He does a knight's job, not a Maester job, even if you cannot blame him for being what he is, and not what he isn't.

One thing I'd add that is not an answer.

How mad was Aerys? And how mad the medium Targaryen was?

That is: it is very easy to see the powerful people as geniuses or fools given that their decision have far reaching consequences.

A fortunate decision, and you are a visionary leader. An unfortunate one and you are a fool. And often, the very same decision seems to be genius to somebody and stupidity to others. Take a look at the thread "Did he deserve it?" about Jon and his last POV in Dance.

So, being remembered as "wise" or "mad" also depends on who tells the tale, and what they think of you inmediately after your demise. Where "they" is the ruling class-group-person in that moment.

Of course Aerys was mad in that he wanted his castle to be razed, his own people to die not to survive the end of its dynasty.

So, what is our judgement on the Blackfish, set up to an all out defence, to the death of his last man, of his family's fortress? Having sent out the peasants after having them bring all their food in improve or worsen your judgement of him? Does anybody in Westeros call him mad? Yes, I know it is a bit stretched: Blackfish could still tell himself it was not a suicide by Lannisters but

Do you think Aerys was mad for the reason he killed the Starks heirs who tried to intimidate him into let them decide what was right or not for his son to do?

The way in which Aerys kill them is very threatening, as he would want to give a dire example. I'm not trying to justify him, it was horrible. If I were a secondary lord I'd be very scared by seeing it. "No one is safe from the Dragon, not even the Lords of Winterfell".

One of the "maddest" things we see Aerys doing is believing that he could have survived the Kings Landing "sacrificial" fire as a real dragon. Another one of the maddest thing we saw him doing was starting trusting no one. To the point of sending away his longest standing hand and friend.

We saw Dany willingly walking in a sacrificial fire very early. And she has showed signs of not trusting people, to the point of sending away Mormont, that from an outsider point of view, the same point of view we have for Aerys, was her longest lasting friend.

I'm not saying that Daenerys is mad.

But she walks a dangerous road. I so hope that she can find equilibrium and a power base that is not just the fear of her dragons, or the worship of her as a supernatural mother... But she must face the challenge of power, the challenge of being worshipped, the challenge of feeling herself different and superior from the rest of mankind. I can only hope she gets out of all of it.

[PatrickStormborn]

Here's one of my favourite quotes from ADWD:

“I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad … a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere out upon the grass her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has crossed the grasslands and the red waste, survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet." [Tyrion to Aegon]

There is very little evidence in the text to suggest that she's about to become mad. If she was like her father, she would have unleashed her dragons; she wouldn't have chained them up. The end of ADWD shows that Daenerys has re-evaluated her current position: to go forward, she must go back. She's also come to accept that the Iron Throne and the Seven Kingdoms were forged with fire and blood. She knows now that only fire and blood can help her conquer Westeros, but after that she can help rebuild a peaceful nation, much like Aegon I did.

As for her saying she is immune to diseases... That's not strictly true, is it? She just says that she doesn't remember ever being sick. And Viserys, who knew more of her family than she did, said the same. When she says she's "the blood of the dragon", she's hardly talking as if she's superhuman. But, as Tyrion said in the quote above, pride was all she had left. Once Viserys and Drogo and Rhaego were killed (and even when Jorah was sent away), what did she have left but her pride? She was left as a queen. She had to be strong for her people, not just for herself.

Rather than being set up as "mad", I think she's being set up as a "grey" hero. She's doing what she believes is right, and sometimes that means she makes mistakes. Some people (like the slaves) will think she's a hero, and some (the slavers) will think she isn't. But how do you define a hero? Surely a hero is someone who strives to create peace and puts her people before herself?

[Gala]

Actually she repeatedly says she knows little of westerosi culture and would like to learn more. Nor is this rare among westerosi leaders, robert doesn't what the barrows of the first men are.

She says that and then prefers to hear something sentimental rather than to learn something.

[Black Crow]

Here's one of my favourite quotes from ADWD:

“I know that she spent her childhood in exile, impoverished, living on dreams and schemes, running from one city to the next, always fearful, never safe, friendless but for a brother who was by all accounts half-mad … a brother who sold her maidenhood to the Dothraki for the promise of an army. I know that somewhere out upon the grass her dragons hatched, and so did she. I know she is proud. How not? What else was left her but pride? I know she is strong. How not? The Dothraki despise weakness. If Daenerys had been weak, she would have perished with Viserys. I know she is fierce. Astapor, Yunkai, and Meereen are proof enough of that. She has crossed the grasslands and the red waste, survived assassins and conspiracies and fell sorceries, grieved for a brother and a husband and a son, trod the cities of the slavers to dust beneath her dainty sandaled feet." [Tyrion to Aegon]

Mad or not I'd say that qualifies her as a warrior and thus fulfilling all the AA criteria - but as to whether this is a good thing for Westeros...

[TrueLion]

Oh, what I meant was that she doesn't think her supposed genetic superiority gives her leave to trample on people. She thinks it gives her an obligation to help the less fortunate.

But she does. I am the blood of the dragon, the seed of kinds and conquerors. She only does what she does because she thinks she's owed the Seven Kingdoms. She wanted to absolutely trample the crap out of Westeros, cripple it like Aegon the Conqueror, then show compassion and expect everyone to love her for it.

[Smooth]

I've found Dany to be perpetually frustrating throughout the series. Conflicted little girl, stumbling through conquest. She shows brilliance and guile, but her thoughts are on kisses. Shes the mother, the dragon, the last of her name, and the girl.

There's a collision of her feelings, wants, and purpose. I get the feeling that Dany's purpose is not to go to Westeros, raise her banners, be a good queen and live happily ever after. The metaphorical elephant in the room is actually a dragon and the fact that she is immune to fire. It's some unusual gifts for someone if their purpose is to do something that fits into the games of lords and houses. I feel like Dany is meant to do something great and perhaps tragic.

I think her story is more an issue of accepting fate than becoming good or bad.

At least I hope.

[Gala]

Her chapters in ADWD are quite confusing sometimes. But do not think she is mad or will be. I personally think that she should learn a lot before to sit on the Iron Throne. First of all, she should throw away any ideas of superiority (we have enough of such things in Westeros already: I am a Lion and all that stuff). If she will stay the way she is, she has nothing to do in Westeros as a queen at all.

But now I do not see her there, she is not ready! but she probably is not mad and never will be.

I agree with Smooth that "she is meant to do something great and perhaps tragic", although she is not my favourite character in the book.