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Knepah

Ethnicity and race

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Most of the dietary laws and other practices one associates with modern Judaism are talmudic in origin, meaning that they date from 200-500 years after jesus. The Ancient Israelites were not jews in the modern rabbinical sense of the word. Rabbinical judaism is an outgrowth of diasporism and post-temple Judaism. The ancient Israelites practiced what would today be closer to karaite judaism, than rabbinical judaism (which is what modern jews follow).

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Sorry to get off topic mods but... Since all God asks of us as non Jews is seven things, with a prohibition of idolatry being amongst them*, I wouldn't be surprised if primitive people around the world where monotheistic, after all God would not ask of of something that is impossible (like accepting Jesus Christ as your personal saviour if you are living on an Island in the South Pacific 500 years before the missionaries will show up), now whether they became monotheistic 2 thousand years ago, or 2 weeks before the missionaires showed up cannot be known, since they have no writing system.... Zoroastrianism is younger than Judaism by a good many years. Rant: Please just admit that God chose the little money grubbing hook noses with their annoying legalistic dietary laws** and loving home lives***. Not the deeply spiritual sister f-ckers with elaborate burial rituals, or deeply spiritual Hindus and Buddhists who run off and meditate in mountains, starving themselves and abstaining from dirty women and annoying children... God cares about actions. Failing to wash, being celibate, whipping oneself, smoking pot, meditating and yoga, help nobody...they do not help you get closer to God. However leaving grain out, freeing your prisoner of war/slave after seven years, killing animals humanely etc will help you get closer to God as will eating nice food and having sex with your partner and raising a family... Since God created the human race (and no I don't believe he did it in 7 days), we have an instinct towards monotheism, even the Greeks, who were pretty foul antisemites, admitted that their was something philosophically appealing about monotheism. Unfortunately many people a) have a mistaken belief that fasting continously, self harm, celibacy, running off into a forest and being a hermit, failing to bathe and growing long matted hair, smoking pot and entering into some sort of dream state, meditating for hours on end and yoga will bring them closer to the divine. b] since Jews do none of these supposedly spiritually beneficial things, how could those "little money grubbing hook noses with their annoying legalistic dietary laws" possibly have invented an awesome concept like monotheism... it must have come from another people, a more refined, spiritual people, because it's so much easier to feel spiritual or to relegate a godly life to ascetics whilst behaving like an animal oneself, then to act well or to be both godly and whilst living in the world with a wife and kids. Btw the Muslims I know seem obsessed with Shaitan, but then they like anything that allows them to avoid personal responsibility. end rant *the other 6 are no murder,no stealing, no sexual immorality, no blasphemy, no animal cruelt and having a functional justice system... **which is the antisemitic stereotype *** which is the thing that freaks like Saint John Chrysostom, Cyril of Alexandria, John of Capistrano, are secretly jealous of and frightened of... I mean how dare people have a loving relationship with their wives and have a loving relationship with God?

O.K. First, don´t mistake my comments for racism or antisemitism or whatever; I haven´t said anything like that, which would be VERY stupid, considering MY JEW ANCESTRY (my family name has sefardi origins, and were forced into conversion during the late Middle Ages; I have also some arab ancestors, and some asian blood on my mother´s side).

Second, I´m not arguing and I´m not willing to argue about which is the "true religion"; this is not the place to do so. I personally respect everyone beliefs, as long as they doesn´t include something overtly nonsensical (like rejecting modern medicine) or outright criminal (like underage marriage or human sacrifice).

Third, I´m not dismissing judaism; all I´m saying is that there are a lot of monotheistic religions that didn´t originate on judaism.

Fourth, there are a lot of religions with values worthy of respect: Zoroatrianism, for example, valued honesty, justice, and hard work; Zarathustra said that growing wheat was a form of prayer, since wheat feeds the hungry and you can´t expect hungry people to worry about virtue: You have to care about their basic needs first. As for hinduism, it´s not about smoking pot and yoga at all, and the majority of hinduists don´t think they must leave their families and go meditate to a mountain; they divide their lives in several stages, including childhood, adulthood, parenthood...etc.; once your children no longer needs you, you enter a last stage in which you spend the remainder of your life preparing for death and reincarnation; some devout hinduists enter that stage early, and not all hinduists follow this (there are MANY variants of hinduism).

Fifth, about the timeline involving Zoroatrianism, Manichaeism, Judaism and the Amarna Heresy (Ankhenaton´s religion), most modern historians think it was something like this:

1550-1420 b.C.: The habiru or hebrew leave Egypt and invade Canaan.

1353-1336 b. C.: Amarna Heresy (Ankhenaten´s religion).

1100-900 b.C.: Zoroaster/Zarathustra most probably lived within that time spam. Birth of Zoroatrianism.

597 b.C.: First deportation to Babylon (there were several ones from 597 to 582). Babylonian captivity. Mesopotamic influences on the biblical texts.The several books of the Old Testament are compiled into a single Holy Book. Mesianic and apocalytic prophecies.

537 b.C.: Persian king Cyrus release the hebrew from captivity and let them go back to Canaan. The Bible describes him as an instrument of God. Zoroastrianic influences on hebrew religion.

4 b.C.: Most probably Jesus´ birth date (later scholars got it wrong, and that´s the reason Jesus really was born before year 1).

216–76 a.C.: Life of Mani, founder of Manichaesim, born and raised among the elcasitic judaic sect, in Asuristan (old Assyria), in the Parthian Empire.

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Most of the dietary laws and other practices one associates with modern Judaism are talmudic in origin, meaning that they date from 200-500 years after jesus. The Ancient Israelites were not jews in the modern rabbinical sense of the word. Rabbinical judaism is an outgrowth of diasporism and post-temple Judaism. The ancient Israelites practiced what would today be closer to karaite judaism, than rabbinical judaism (which is what modern jews follow).

just as today Christians are, we should be all thankful that religions adopt, otherwise we would be still living in the dark ages...

disclaimer: atheist.

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Most of the dietary laws and other practices one associates with modern Judaism are talmudic in origin, meaning that they date from 200-500 years after jesus. The Ancient Israelites were not jews in the modern rabbinical sense of the word. Rabbinical judaism is an outgrowth of diasporism and post-temple Judaism. The ancient Israelites practiced what would today be closer to karaite judaism, than rabbinical judaism (which is what modern jews follow).

So you say.

But the 613 Mitzvot are in the Torah, and they include the dietary laws.

Which would be why the Romans and Greeks mention that the Jews did not eat pork etc. In fact archealogical excavations in Israel can pinpoint when an area became Jewish by the lack of pig teeth (pig teeth are apparently pretty permanent), which often coincides with an absence of figurative art.

Also the Oral Torah, was according to Orthodox belief, was also handed down from Mount Sinai, although being oral their is no way to prove or disprove that... Even Conservative Jews seem to hold that, with the destruction of the 2nd Temple and the depredations of the genocidal, enslaving Romans, it was necessary to write down all the "how to observe laws stuff" which had been integrated as part of the culture had previously just been taken for granted. The lady who told me this used this wonderful example of the sukkot hut, which I can't remember exactly but basically involved saying "if you read the statement "thou shalt build a sukkot hut" you might end up building a sukkot hut out of the wrong materials and it would look wrong, the Talmud tells you what materials the sukkot hut shal be made from and what it should look like.

Also the Oral Torah is just explanation on how to observe the 613 mitzvot and does not add anything, unlike say Christianity, which subtracts and then adds retarded laws like lifelong celibacy for priests, or Islam which subtracts and then adds laws like prayer five times a day.

I used to spend a lot of time on the Judaism forum, so I got reasonably good at knowing Judaism actually involved.

Nice people to. Got very sick of the missionaries that came invaded the forum though. There were a few Karaites who were just as good at wopping missionary backside, if not better because the retarded missionaries couldn't say "but that's just because of the Talmud"...

I don't disagree that Zoroastrianism is a fine religion, and I wish the Zoroastrians had remained the dominant religion of Persia.

Alas, Persia fell to the horde.

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Mod:

Since the thread is firmly off topic now, and of limited initial use, i'm going to close it. Start a Gen Chat thread if you simply must discuss the history of Judaic religeous practice.

Shabbat shalom. /mod

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