The Shadowbinder Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What happens when you slay your Kin or break guestright? I understand that the old gods take a dim view on this but what exactly happens??? I remember something about rats but can't remember the stories... or where they are in the books... as at the moment... The Freys have broken guestright? (would the other houses be included in this - or just the Freys? ... as it was at the Twins e.g. Was Roose being really sly by organising the Red Wedding with Tywin knowing it would be the Freys getting the shit - not him??).Theon keeps being called a Kinslayer... i can only assume because he fathered the Millars sons that he killed (still a bit of a grey area for me)...Tyrion technically killed his Father... but if A + J = T then i guess it's just ironic that he killed Jamies father and Jamie killed his... but no Kinslaying involved...Stannis Baratheon - this is a bit tricky and i can't work out whether it is actually kinslaying or not - but Stannis dreamed about it and his Stannis-shaped shadow killed Renly... so will the old gods turn him into a peach when they are done with him?!Once you take your vows in the NW - does it count as Kinslaying to kill a fellow 'brother'? or is it blood only...?and most importantly.... when the hell do the old gods take their revenge? Does it only apply if you follow the old gods? (Stannis was concerned and he doesnt follow the old gods, yet). I'm trying to understand why the hell Gregor is still kicking about if he killed his sister and father? If the old gods had any say in it surely he would have been turned into a chiuawahah buy now?Im pretty sure the Old Gods dont directly involve themselves in the punishment of mortals... It's like how most people on Earth see God - subtly influencing events or working through karma.Although now we have some insight with the weirwoods and magic... but still no direct proof of the Gods meddling in human affairs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ayrmidon Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 What happens when you slay your Kin or break guestright? I understand that the old gods take a dim view on this but what exactly happens??? I remember something about rats but can't remember the stories... or where they are in the books... as at the moment... The Freys have broken guestright? (would the other houses be included in this - or just the Freys? ... as it was at the Twins e.g. Was Roose being really sly by organising the Red Wedding with Tywin knowing it would be the Freys getting the shit - not him??).The Freys were the ones holding the business end of the guestright, so any supernatural problems from violating guestright would be on them, not anyone else.I suspect that Roose was indeed clever by getting the Freys to violate guestright and thus leave everyone else out of it. Now no one trusts the Freys with anything.Tyrion technically killed his Father... but if A + J = T then i guess it's just ironic that he killed Jamies father and Jamie killed his... but no Kinslaying involved...Whats technical about Tyrian killing his father? Tywin wasn't about to die all on his own without the assistance of the crossbow bolt.I was under the impression that the Targaryens and the Lannisters had been interbreeding for decades, meaning that Jamie could well have been a kinslayer when he killed Aerys. Interbreeding is one of those things that make it harder to kill others when you've got a ban on kinslaying.Stannis Baratheon - this is a bit tricky and i can't work out whether it is actually kinslaying or not - but Stannis dreamed about it and his Stannis-shaped shadow killed Renly... so will the old gods turn him into a peach when they are done with him?!Well that one is tough, but I would lean towards Stannis being a kinslayer over the death of Renly. It sounds like the Melisandre Method uses a lot of the person when it creates a shadow of the person, and Stannis probably did have the choice in his dream not to kill Renly. Stannis being Stannis, Renly had insulted him to his face and was, in Stannis' eyes, a usurper, so its believable that dream Stannis kills Renly.Once you take your vows in the NW - does it count as Kinslaying to kill a fellow 'brother'? or is it blood only...?Kin is blood-related. Vows do not make someone "kin". Killing your wife is not kinslaying, as while everyone agrees that Ramsey Bolton's killing a wife is terribly bad, no one (out of earshot) accuses him of being a kinslayer as a result of killing his wife. That accusation comes from him killing his half-brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSpawn Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Thanks for the response...Whats technical about Tyrian killing his father? Tywin wasn't about to die all on his own without the assistance of the crossbow bolt.I just meant that from what we know Tywin is Tyrions father... but theoretically the father could be Aerys... (poor articulation - oops) I was under the impression that the Targaryens and the Lannisters had been interbreeding for decades, meaning that Jamie could well have been a kinslayer when he killed Aerys. Interbreeding is one of those things that make it harder to kill others when you've got a ban on kinslaying.Have to disagree with this though... i got the impression that Tywin had been trying to marry into the Targ line for some time and the rebuke of his daughter and molesting of his wife was probably the straw that broke the camels back... from then on he became obsessed with the honour of house Lannister being restored - and hated Tyrion because he was a Targ / Lannister and yet he couldn't announce him to the world because the circumstances would bring Joanna and himself into dishonour...maybe he felt the gods were mocking him so became more and more cruel with his plans... eventually leading to the Red Wedding... having being out-witted by the youg-wolf, the pride of the Lion was severely damaged... and Tywin wasn't about to let all those years of brooding on what was lost be for nothing...I did think that the Rat cook story is a little vague... turned into a giant white rat? sounds like a warg second life... more than the gods revenge... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neo Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 This might have been covered elsewhere, but how does Jojen know that he must lead Bran to the three-eyed crow?Does he just dream about the land beyond the Wall and then figures that he must take Bran there? Seems a bit flimsy IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadowbinder Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 He had green dreams that led him to do that, perhaps visions or feelings guided him. Maybe Brynden Rivers (the three eyed crow) spoke to him in a dream and gave him the directions north. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talleyrand Posted January 12, 2012 Share Posted January 12, 2012 Did Roy Avers do an audiobook of A Clash of Kings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaitie Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 It's easier than calling him "my great-great half-nephew" (Egg being the grandson of Bloodraven's half-brother). None of the Great Bastards took the Targaryen name either IIRC : Daemon Blackfyre, Bitersteel and Shiera Seastar.Thanks ^_^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon I Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have briefly seen people talking about the fact Tyrion might be a Targ... can anyone tell me where this theory comes from or direct me to where it is explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lebronn Jaime Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I have briefly seen people talking about the fact Tyrion might be a Targ... can anyone tell me where this theory comes from or direct me to where it is explained.Ser Barristan mentions that Mad King Aerys was attracted to Joanna Lannister and "took liberties" with her during the bedding ceremony at her wedding to Tywin. Most believe that it just means that he got handsy during the stripping part, but some have taken this to mean there was some kind of relationship or that Aerys raped her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon I Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 from my understanding the bedding is attended by more then one man... kinda hard to believe he raped her in front of everyone plus isn't tyrion the youngest... meaning Jamie and Cersei would come first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Ser Barristan mentions that Mad King Aerys was attracted to Joanna Lannister and "took liberties" with her during the bedding ceremony at her wedding to Tywin. Most believe that it just means that he got handsy during the stripping part, but some have taken this to mean there was some kind of relationship or that Aerys raped her.That's just the most recent little piece of possible evidence and is really just backing up the preivous notes that Aerys had a thing for Joanna. Clearly nothing that happened during the wedding-bedding could have possibly affected Tyrions parentage years and years later.http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/topic/53017-tyrion-as-a-targaryen/http://asoiaf.wester...on-a-targaryen/I'm sure there are other threads too, but these two jumped out on a cursory search. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aegon I Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shadowbinder Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Did Roy Avers do an audiobook of A Clash of Kings?Yes, I prefer Roy Dotrice though personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Is there any evidence that the story of the Rat Cook is meant to be taken literally?It looked more like folklore to me. Like a Grim Reaper or generic boogeyman tale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Rayne Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Was the crown in the Ryman Frey and the Queen of Whores scene in AFFC Robb's crown? And if so how did it end up in the possession of Lady Stoneheart?I know that Stoneheart's people captured and hanged Ryman Frey but Jaime specifically told him to leave the crown behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Was the crown in the Ryman Frey and the Queen of Whores scene in AFFC Robb's crown?I took it that it was Jeyne's crown. She tells Jaime that it was taken from her and that she wants it back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 Is there any evidence that the story of the Rat Cook is meant to be taken literally?It looked more like folklore to me. Like a Grim Reaper or generic boogeyman tale.It is a seemingly wide spread story - at least in the North. Bran knew the story, Manderley as well. And there was a song, which probably spread the story throughout the Seven Kingdoms. That doesn't proof it is true. There are other references to feeding (own) flesh to people throughout the books: Vargo Hoat with Jaime's hand, Ser Gregor, feeding people their own entrails. At least Shagga had the decency of feeding the organ he threatened to take to goats :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javi Marcos Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 In the first book, we readers are always suspecting that Jaime and Cersei were the responsibles of Arryn's death.We learn later that they may like it, because Jon, with the help of Stannis, has discovered thst Joffrey, Myrcella and Tommen are not Robert's sons but Jaime's.Lysa Arryn, Arryn's widow, is claiming that they were the the murderers.In fact, most of the jokes about Ned's lack of knowledge of the "King's Landing way of gobern" are about this topic. Ned was investigating the people who were supposed to kill his friend and made the same mistakes than him.But after AGOT and even ACOK finale, nothing else is said about his killers.And then, in the end of ASOS, Lysa confesses to have done it, influenced by Littlefinger. So are the Lannisters totally inocent, after all? Or they convinced Littlefinger to brainwash Lysa and, are, in fact, the intelectual responsible of his death? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ursa Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 I don't believe we ever get it spelled out exactly how Jon Arryn was killed or who was involved, but this site http://towerofthehand.com/essays/chrisholden/jon_arryn.html does a pretty good job of laying out all that we do know. It doesn't cover events in ADWD, but I don't remember any more info about his death in that book anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rmholt Posted January 13, 2012 Share Posted January 13, 2012 And if after 5 books that person isn't Jon Snow I'll eat my peak. He's the pivot point, the child of Ice and Fire.First, Jon was killed. At least that is how it looks. Second, Tyrion and Jaime are developing nicely as well. There are a lot of possibilities.Now, my question is: Did Jon really get killed or did someone save him (such as Ghost).If he WAS killed, we already know from Varamir that he is an extremely talented warg so I imagine he would pop into Ghost.Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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