Small Questions XIII

[zmflavius]

i'm assuming tywin wantd to capture ned oly coz of tyrion's arrest? And btw did cersei recruit slynt oly coz sansa told her neds plan?

What...?

Are you saying that Tywin wanted to capture Ned because of Tyrion's arrest and that Cersei recruited Slynt only because Sansa told her Ned's plan? No, that was all Littlefinger and Cersei. For the same reason though.

Cersei recruited Slynt because he was the only trump card in KL. Or rather, Littlefinger did.

[corbon]

You think Tywin cares about right and wrong ? Catelyn Tully shamed the Lannister House by arresting one of its members so Tywin retaliated by attacking her own original House. Initially the attack was also "covert" : the knights weren't wearing any kind of sign that could mark them as Lannister knights in the hope that Ned would attack them and be accused of breaching the peace first.

Not to mention that the raiders left behind fish guts.

It was clearly designed as retribution on House Tully, for Catelyn's actions unspeakable presumption in daring to arrest a member of House Lannisterto stand trial for commiting an actual crime. Lannisters are above the law! ([/sarcasm]).

Drawing Ned into an ambush was a (covert) attack on the crown, preventing the Hand from supporting Catelyn's accusations. I don't think it had anything whatsoever to do with House Stark. The Lannisters weren't actually enemies of the Starks at that stage in Tywin's mind.

[DragonSpawn]

HA! HA! HA! - just been re-listening to CoK... and just came across something i had forgotten..

Jamie Lannister a.k.a. the Kingslayer... LC of the Kinsgaurd... used to do a bit of cross dressing when he was younger! Him and Cersie used to swap clothes and pretend to be each other... for Cersei that's not so bad (and for some reason was the only bit i remembered) - but had forgotten this means Jamie was partial to wearing some fancy girly-clothes... Pre-goat mutilation i woulda probably thought twice about saying it to his face... but now... ha ha ha ha ha ha! anyone else find that "image" thoroughly amusing?

[Nev yn]

Drawing Ned into an ambush was a (covert) attack on the crown, preventing the Hand from supporting Catelyn's accusations. I don't think it had anything whatsoever to do with House Stark.

You forget that Ned was on the record as stating that Catelyn was acting on his behalf in taking Tyrion into custody. It seems more likely that the main goal was to kill Ned, with the side goal of retribution on the Tullys for participating in his Stark shenanigans.

[The Shadowbinder]

Why is it worse for Jamie to crossdress instead Cersei...? It really doesn't bother me at all, I'd probably do it too if I had a beautiful identical twin just to see how the other sex had it. And I imagine them looking pretty much the same before puberty.

You forget that Ned was on the record as stating that Catelyn was acting on his behalf in taking Tyrion into custody. It seems more likely that the main goal was to kill Ned, with the side goal of retribution on the Tullys for participating in his Stark shenanigans.

But IIRC Tywin wasn't aware that Ned had claimed responsibility for Tyrions kidnapping, he was acting 100% on the information the free riders who left the Crossroads Inn has told him.

[duncanthemedium]

Just a teeny tiny one:

I recently read a discussion about the Qiet Isle, and about Rhaegars rubies that washed up there. Six have come up so far, and everyone assumed there had to be seven in total. Is it stated somewhre that it were only seven or did someone make that up because 7 is such a special number in ASOIAF? Can't remember...

I think it is made up...I was under the impression there were many rubies and people from both sides stopped fighting and started collecting the rubies in their greed. So there were probably more than 7

[ghost the direwolf]

When Nyneria brought Catelyn Stark body out of the river, was she a wolf or had Arya warg into her? I thought that . Nymeria just happened to recognise Catelyn as the mother of her owner

thanks.

[duncanthemedium]

When Nyneria brought Catelyn Stark body out of the river, was she a wolf or had Arya warg into her? I thought that . Nymeria just happened to recognise Catelyn as the mother of her owner

thanks.

That was just Nymeria all by herself I guess. Arya displays no knowledge of knowing her mother's alive(ish). After the RW she thinks she is alone in the world. (except for sansa...)

[ghost the direwolf]

which Kingdoms are part of the 7 kingdoms? ( I have a map and i counted a total of 9 kingdoms) So help.

[kephv]

That was just Nymeria all by herself I guess. Arya displays no knowledge of knowing her mother's alive(ish). After the RW she thinks she is alone in the world. (except for sansa...)

Arya warged her at the time. It's the reason she knew she was dead after.

[ghost the direwolf]

Thanks thanks thanks!

[Lebronn Jaime]

which Kingdoms are part of the 7 kingdoms? ( I have a map and i counted a total of 9 kingdoms) So help.

At the time of Aegon's Conquest:

The North

The Iron Islands (and the Riverlands)

The Vale of Arryn

The Rock (the Westerlands)

The Stormlands

The Reach

Dorne

The Crownlands and the Riverlands were split off from the pre-existing kingdoms after the Conquest.

[corbon]

You forget that Ned was on the record as stating that Catelyn was acting on his behalf in taking Tyrion into custody. It seems more likely that the main goal was to kill Ned, with the side goal of retribution on the Tullys for participating in his Stark shenanigans.

But IIRC Tywin wasn't aware that Ned had claimed responsibility for Tyrions kidnapping, he was acting 100% on the information the free riders who left the Crossroads Inn has told him.

Exactly.

Tywin is smart enough to know Ned will back up his wife. And attempt to bring justice - its his job as Hand after all. But that comes after.

Step one, get retribution on Catelyn through attacking the Tully's. Step 2, mess with any attempt to interfere with 'Lannister business' by the Crown, which means messing with Ned. This has the added benefit of returning the Crown to Lannister control (Robert being pathetic without Ned providing a moral spine).

But if the goal is just to screw with Ned there are lots of ways to do that without risking nearly as much (Robert could have got of his arse at the prospect of a bit of real fighting).. No, the first goal was to punish Catelyn Tully and remind everyone that you don't mess with a Lannister no matter what. The fish guts made that point and were unnecessary to provoke Ned.

[ghost the direwolf]

At the time of Aegon's Conquest:

The North

The Iron Islands (and the Riverlands)

The Vale of Arryn

The Rock (the Westerlands)

The Stormlands

The Reach

Dorne

The Crownlands and the Riverlands were split off from the pre-existing kingdoms after the Conquest.

Thanks very much.

[mor2]

This quote from the Tv show, has never appeared in the book right?

"Should I explain to you the meaning of a closed door in a whorehouse? - Tyrion"

[FanTasy]

This quote from the Tv show, has never appeared in the book right?

"Should I explain to you the meaning of a closed door in a whorehouse? - Tyrion"

The whole scene has never appeared in the book ...

[ForeverBallin]

Who was the brother that Bloodraven loved?

[Ladywhiskers]

HA! HA! HA! - just been re-listening to CoK... and just came across something i had forgotten..

Jamie Lannister a.k.a. the Kingslayer... LC of the Kinsgaurd... used to do a bit of cross dressing when he was younger! Him and Cersie used to swap clothes and pretend to be each other... for Cersei that's not so bad (and for some reason was the only bit i remembered) - but had forgotten this means Jamie was partial to wearing some fancy girly-clothes... Pre-goat mutilation i woulda probably thought twice about saying it to his face... but now... ha ha ha ha ha ha! anyone else find that "image" thoroughly amusing?

Why is cross dressing "not so bad" for women as it is for men? Is it because of men's higher status? Women elevate themselves by imitating men, whereas since women are so far below men, men demean and degrade themselves by imitating women?

During medieval and Renaissance, btw, dressing as a man carried a MUCH worse penalty for women than it did for men. While all-male companies of players and dancers roamed the countryside featuring "beautiful women," Joan of Arc burned as much for cross-dressing as for any other reason. In Venice wearing men's clothes automatically carried a death penalty for a woman, if she were caught. Cersei stood a LOT less of a chance of being caught, if there weren't two Jaimes running around the castle. She was the one who wanted to see what it was like to be a boy, and be treated like a person. I doubt Jaime had any particular desire to wear Cersei's clothes--it just shows how far he was always willing to go, to make her happy.

Nowadays we cut women more slack for wearing men's clothes because they're not doing it for sexual reasons usually--they're doing it because pants are easier to move in, or because looking more like a man gets you taken more seriously at work. We don't think less of Brienne of Tarth because that armor makes her a lot less likely to be raped.

[WhiteWolf26]

Who was the brother that Bloodraven loved?

I think its all speculation but I assume the brother he hated was Bittersteel and the brother he loved was either Daemon or Dareon. I think him having a good relationship with Daemon but still believing in the crowns sucession to Daeron makes for an interesting storyline. But the obvious answer would be he loved Daeron and thats why he backed him in the Blackfyre Rebellion.

[zoragon]

I don't know if people might consider this a stupid question or not but I couldn't find an answer anywhere. I'm fairly new to the world of Westeros. All I know about it is what the TV show portrayed and what the prologue of A Game of Thrones told me as I just started reading the book last night. Anyway, I want to know why the series is called "A Song of Ice and Fire". What does that have to do with the storyline or the world in general? Sorry if this is a dumb question... I'm kinda a noob to this stuff.