DragonSpawn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Why is cross dressing "not so bad" for women as it is for men? Is it because of men's higher status? Women elevate themselves by imitating men, whereas since women are so far below men, men demean and degrade themselves by imitating women?During medieval and Renaissance, btw, dressing as a man carried a MUCH worse penalty for women than it did for men. While all-male companies of players and dancers roamed the countryside featuring "beautiful women," Joan of Arc burned as much for cross-dressing as for any other reason. In Venice wearing men's clothes automatically carried a death penalty for a woman, if she were caught. Cersei stood a LOT less of a chance of being caught, if there weren't two Jaimes running around the castle. She was the one who wanted to see what it was like to be a boy, and be treated like a person. I doubt Jaime had any particular desire to wear Cersei's clothes--it just shows how far he was always willing to go, to make her happy.Nowadays we cut women more slack for wearing men's clothes because they're not doing it for sexual reasons usually--they're doing it because pants are easier to move in, or because looking more like a man gets you taken more seriously at work. We don't think less of Brienne of Tarth because that armor makes her a lot less likely to be raped.In ASOIAF (Westeros) Women are given secondary status - not men - even Tyrion is asked to fight and he's a Dwarf (nothing against Dwarves - just doubt the reach of his arm! i.e. it never seems to go well when he's not riding his mount... does it!?)I.e. I can see why Cersei would want to know what it's like to have the freedom to do what you want and be respected as a man... same as Lyanna... Brienne, Arya, the Dornish, Wildlings etc... just can't get my head around why Jamie would do it... to help his sister ... coz he's curious... probably just to cause trouble... still ... Princess Jamie Lannister has a funny ring to it given his reputation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Just a teeny tiny one:I recently read a discussion about the Qiet Isle, and about Rhaegars rubies that washed up there. Six have come up so far, and everyone assumed there had to be seven in total. Is it stated somewhre that it were only seven or did someone make that up because 7 is such a special number in ASOIAF? Can't remember...*bumps her own question*No idea? Nobody? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladywhiskers Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 In ASOIAF (Westeros) Women are given secondary status - not men - even Tyrion is asked to fight and he's a Dwarf (nothing against Dwarves - just doubt the reach of his arm! i.e. it never seems to go well when he's not riding his mount... does it!?)I.e. I can see why Cersei would want to know what it's like to have the freedom to do what you want and be respected as a man... same as Lyanna... Brienne, Arya, the Dornish, Wildlings etc... just can't get my head around why Jamie would do it... to help his sister ... coz he's curious... probably just to cause trouble... still ... Princess Jamie Lannister has a funny ring to it given his reputation...Well, since nobody knew he was Jaime, it wouldn't be "Princess Jaime."I get the feeling he didn't like it much. If he had, he'd still be doing it now. I'm sure being dressed as Cersei let him to into rooms he wouldn't normally get to go in. Maybe he got to see girls naked, etc....I'm sure he was curious, too, about what it was like to be Cersei, and if they walked together, dressed as each other, he'd get to see for himself how differently they were treated from each other. For Jaime, it was about making Cersei happy. It was always about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSpawn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well, since nobody knew he was Jaime, it wouldn't be "Princess Jaime."Jamie and Cersei both knew! ;) Wouldn't that be the icing on the cake... if Jamie came to KL to fight for Cersei and she said in front of everyone... "Ser Robert Strong will be my champion... i need no one-handed cross-dressing oathbreaker to defend my honour..."... i'd strangle her...Edit: Just to add ... it wouldn't be the first time she has used that mocking justure to aggrevate someone... i remember a cetain stag getting the same treatment in front of the kings hand... and thanks for the info on medieval cross-dressing - was actually very interesting to read! ... and i don't disagree about why he did it... who doesnt want to please Cersei? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanTasy Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 *bumps her own question*No idea? Nobody?If I recall correctly the ruby's were sewn on whatever he wore, to depict the three-headed dragon. If the rubies were to depict a whole dragon I doubt you can do this with seven stones. If it were just ornaments, maybe six for the eyes (if you could both see them) and one for the heart?I'd have to reread that bit on the Isle. Maybe it was just the next stone they'd expect, and if there were washed ashore six until now the next one would be the seventh.But this is GRRM so you can expect references and hidden meanings.The number seven certainly does have special meaning in Westeros. The Faith of the Seven, Seven Kingdoms, Trial of the Seven. the seven men that faced the Kingsguard in Dorne, the number of the kingsguard ... and there is probably more.Edited for fuzzy English Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 If I recall correctly the ruby's were sewn on whatever he wore, to depict the three-headed dragon. If the rubies were to depict a whole dragon I doubt you can do this with seven stones. If it were just ornaments, maybe six for the eyes (if you could both see them) and one for the heart?I'd have to reread that bit on the Isle. Maybe it was just the next stone they'd expect, and if there were washed ashore six until now the next one would be the seventh.But this is GRRM so you can expect references and hidden meanings.The number seven certainly does have special meaning in Westeros. The Faith of the Seven, Seven Kingdoms, Trial of the Seven. the seven men that faced the Kingsguard in Dorne, the number of the kingsguard ... and there is probably more.Edited for fuzzy EnglishThanks :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Targaryen Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 *bumps her own question*No idea? Nobody?Well I don´t think that he means that the Rhaegars Armor only have 7 rubys, just that 7 is important to then (because the men on the quiet island are religious) and the seven ruby will have special meaning to then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winter's Lady Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Well I don´t think that he means that the Rhaegars Armor only have 7 rubys, just that 7 is important to then (because the men on the quiet island are religious) and the seven ruby will have special meaning to then.Yep, that's what I was wondering.What I read sounded like there were only 7 rubies, and tht seemed very unlikely to me, because it would be difficult to form a three headed dragon on armor with only 7 stones.It makes much more sense that they were only waiting for the seventh (of X) to wash up because it would be a meaningful event.Thanks for clarifying! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSpawn Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 I dont really know where to put this but i think i found a bit where Daenerys is having a dragon dream about Jon Snow and is ... errr... "Sometimes she would close her eyes and dream of him. But it was never Jorah Mormont she dreamed of. Her lover was always younger and more comely, though his face remained a shifting shadow. Once she was so tormented, she slipped a hand down between her legs..." ... You get the picture ... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ghost the direwolf Posted January 31, 2012 Share Posted January 31, 2012 Are you sure it was about Jon at that particular time? I know there is a part where she is dreaming about having sex with someone that is cold and i though "Jon". May be you are right as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonSpawn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Are you sure it was about Jon at that particular time? I know there is a part where she is dreaming about having sex with someone that is cold and i though "Jon". May be you are right as well.Cant really confirm if it is Jon - it's really vague... the shifting shadow face sounds like it has double meaning... but quite funny if GRRM has thrown that in subtly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drinking Cersei's Tears Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 How old is Brienne? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexy Boleyn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 Another question concerning ages: is Catelyn older than Ned? She was bethroted to his elder brother, and was surely younger than him, but is it the same with Ned? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexy Boleyn Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 I'd say late teens, early twenties ( her failed bethrotal at 13 is neither too recent, nor old enough for the pain to be healed) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenGirl Posted February 1, 2012 Share Posted February 1, 2012 <<<------------You mean like that one? Exactly like that one. Very cool, I never thought how that could mean she is a decendant of him... I like that :) Also explains why she is SO tall! :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanthemedium Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Exactly like that one. Very cool, I never thought how that could mean she is a decendant of him... I like that :) Also explains why she is SO tall! :PI have heard there are as many as 4 Dunk descendants roaming around Westeros...I wonder what the story is behind that though. I mean, she is the 4th kid for Lord Tarth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duncanthemedium Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Exactly like that one. Very cool, I never thought how that could mean she is a decendant of him... I like that :) Also explains why she is SO tall! :PI have heard there are as many as 4 Dunk descendants roaming around Westeros...I wonder what the story is behind that though. I mean, she is the 4th kid for Lord Tarth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evamitchelle Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 Another question concerning ages: is Catelyn older than Ned? She was bethroted to his elder brother, and was surely younger than him, but is it the same with Ned? Catelyn is in fact one year younger than him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nausicaä Posted February 2, 2012 Share Posted February 2, 2012 How old is Brienne?I'm pretty sure she's 19, though I wouldn't be able to say in what chapter exactly it's mentioned. The timeline at ASOIAF wiki lists her year of birth as 282, but also without a chapter reference. IIRC, in ASOS her age isn't mentioned, all we get is that she looks young enough for Jaime to call her a child, so I think her age came either from ACOK or (more likely) AFFC.I have heard there are as many as 4 Dunk descendants roaming around Westeros...I wonder what the story is behind that though. I mean, she is the 4th kid for Lord Tarth...AFAIK, that's just a rumor, no one's been able to provide a source for that four descendants thing in the thread that originally discussed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForeverBallin Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 The whore that tried to rob Hother Umber, was he solicited by Umber or met on the street or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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