Although I hesitate to say "overrated," 2011 releases that aren't year's-best quality to me

[Larry.]

Misread that a bit, maybe because I liked the one Black Company novel I read years ago. I have quite a few Cook books in the house, though, so maybe I'll read them sometime in 2012 to see if my opinion changes or if I still consider Cook to be superior to Abercrombie.

[Sci-2]

Thank you Larry. Before I read that link, Abercrombie was on my "to read, eventually" list. Not anymore. :ack:

Actually, while the link and subsequent comments make it clear what a fail that scene is - in the narrative logic if nothing else - I'd recommend Heroes both for being a generally good book and its female protagonist Finree. It also moved away from the predictable downward spiral of the characters.

ETA: grammar

ETA II: Though there is a woman in refrigerator who gets no agency or real narrative beyond her serving as a victim, but the person she serves as a WiR for is another woman.

[Gormenghast]

I wonder how ADWD "improves on rereads" since it's the last book to come out and there's no other material that can put on it a revelatory light in retrospective.

Are people merely assuming that everyone simply isn't paying attention on a first read and will only read carefully on a reread?

[Spring Bass]

I wonder how ADWD "improves on rereads" since it's the last book to come out and there's no other material that can put on it a revelatory light in retrospective.

Are people merely assuming that everyone simply isn't paying attention on a first read and will only read carefully on a reread?

I simply find that I tend to notice the intra-book linkages more after I've read it the first time, and know what's going to happen.

[UndergroundMan]

Totally agree with your opinion of "The Heroes". I thought I was the only one who found it vastly disappointing. Pretty much agree with your opinions of "Dance with Dragons" as well.

"White Luck Warrior" was by far my favorite release of 2011.

I plan on reading "Embassytown" pretty soon.

And I found the entire Long Price Quartet too underwhelming to even want to read "The Dragon's Path".

Disagree with your opinion of "Wise Man's Fear". Even though it was bloated and not much happened, I couldn't help but love Rothfuss's writing and Kvothe's adventures.

[Arthmail]

You do realize that she utilizes the vitriolic rage post style to entertain and rile, right? I may not agree with her or want to agree with her all the time and she may have trashed a few of my favorite authors, but her opinions and points are often right on the money. Crazy bitch? To you, I suppose. For me, she is one of the few reviewers I trust because the style she utilizes, the one that apparently makes her look crazy, allows her to be honest and not hold back.

But rage posting styles don't work if they do not actually elucidate the matter. She confuses rage with anger, and it comes off less as an illuminating point and more as someone spewing seething disdain about the place without any real focus. And besides, an author can be honest and not hold back (Christopher Hitchens), while not spilling out in crazy land. She is little better than sitting down in front of Fox.

Edit: I mean, look at the name of her blog. Look at the disdain with which she holds others, even though her own intelligence is nothing to give anyone pause. Her abuse of fans, who rightly wish to defend the work of something they enjoy, is laughable. She is building a web site and an internet presence - though i have no notion of how popular she is - off of being like Ann Coulter. Saying anything to get people to listen. She is the type of person that makes the world a dumber place.

Edit 2: I mean, look at the response she puts in her buttmud, or whatever the fucking insipid section of her hate wall is called, to a response from Scott Bakker. She claims he's mad. I didn't get that sense from his piece at all. He's correct in pointing out that she is all flair without substance, all vitriol without anything of use to say.

I'll extend a bit further than Gratch. She is not crazy, she is a full on idiot.

[Bastard of Godsgrace]

I just have to love how Larry first started what was shaping to be a decent discussion and then destroyed it by quoting a rabid troll as an authority. Wy t go, Larry.

Edited to add:

You do realize that she utilizes the vitriolic rage post style to entertain and rile, right?.

Nope, she is just a troll doing it for the lolz.

[Datepalm]

Mod hat:

Any further personal insults directed to the author of the linked blog, or anyone else, will be deleted and the posters warned and banned if carrying on.

Secondly, this debate isn't even about the relevant Abercrombie book, nevermind the subject of the thread. Move it to the relevant threads or start another gender thread, if you simply must.

[Stego]

Sorry, but it needs to be said... Larry, you have shite taste. :D

I disagree with you on just about every book, and that means, by definition, that you are wrong.

But I suppose you have a right to your opinion. <3

[Larry.]

Mod hat:

Any further personal insults directed to the author of the linked blog, or anyone else, will be deleted and the posters warned and banned if carrying on.

Secondly, this debate isn't even about the relevant Abercrombie book, nevermind the subject of the thread. Move it to the relevant threads or start another gender thread, if you simply must.

Is it possible to split this at the point where I link to the Requires Hate blog? I think the tangential discussion that emerged from that is worth having, even if all I originally meant when I linked to it was to show that my dislike of Abercrombie's latest novel differs from what is said of his earlier novels.

[Larry.]

Sorry, but it needs to be said... Larry, you have shite taste. :D

I disagree with you on just about every book, and that means, by definition, that you are wrong.

But I suppose you have a right to your opinion. <3

Wait until you see the books that did make the cut ;)

[Stego]

Wait until you see the books that did make the cut ;)

I don't need to. I'm sure I could guess. :D

[Larry.]

I don't need to. I'm sure I could guess. :D

I know there's at least one we both enjoyed greatly this year that's under heavy consideration for the final list. Too bad the full moon was last week ;)

[Datepalm]

Is it possible to split this at the point where I link to the Requires Hate blog? I think the tangential discussion that emerged from that is worth having, even if all I originally meant when I linked to it was to show that my dislike of Abercrombie's latest novel differs from what is said of his earlier novels.

If you start a thread, I can move some posts to it. (If I start it, as my patience is at a low ebb at the moment, its going to be named "The Only Thing We Have To Say Is Rape.")

[Larry.]

If you start a thread, I can move some posts to it. (If I start it, as my patience is at a low ebb at the moment, its going to be named "The Only Thing We Have To Say Is Rape.")

I'll do that shortly, once I finish writing a short mission statement for a new blog I'm co-founding. Maybe in the next 10-15 minutes?

[Datepalm]

I'll be here, writing short mission statements of modly dictatorship.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Gormenghast,

I wonder how ADWD "improves on rereads" since it's the last book to come out and there's no other material that can put on it a revelatory light in retrospective.

Are people merely assuming that everyone simply isn't paying attention on a first read and will only read carefully on a reread?

When I say ADWD improves on a reread I'm offering my opinion. It may not be true for you. But that was my experience and the experience of many who have read the book. Your mileage may vary.

[Larry.]

I'll be here, writing short mission statements of modly dictatorship.

I hope my intro post helps in that regard as well. Unfortunately, I won't be very active today, due to two trips during the late morning and afternoon that will take up most of my time today. I think the topic could lead to some good discussion...or if some give in, it could be a trainwreck. I'm an optimist.

[Sci-2]

I still consider Cook to be superior to Abercrombie.

The first three Black Company I think easily beat out First Law. My big problem with First Law is that it is taking the classic fantasy novel tropes and putting a logical not in front of them. This extended to BSC, but I think Heroes genuinely feels like the characters are guiding the plot through their interaction without an authorial hand pushing for subversion.

[cseresz.reborn]

I found this past year's crop to be rather disappointing as a whole

GRRM is the only living epic fantasy author. That's a fact.

Epic fantasy is dead.