john.w Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Hey,I'm reading through SOS (cs. page 530) and I'm finding myself a little disappointed, especially with Melisandre and how she seems to be manipulating events. I loved GoT as there was a lot of political intrigue and although CoK took 700 pages for a major plot event, I still enjoyed it. I liked how characters fought wars and seemed to be in control of events as they fought a dynastic civil war in Westeros. [spoilerS BELOW!! READ IF YOU'VE FINISHED SOS]Yet now, this woman comes from Asshai and major contenders for power all die (even in CoK).First, Renly. He seemed like a good guy to read about and then a shadow kills him. (I let it slide when I read it.)Second, Storm's End. Looks like a good siege. Tensions are mounting and Stannis may be caught between King's Landing and Storm's End yet Melisandre births a shadow, kills the stewerd (can't recall his name) and the siege is over. (Second shadow death but I didn't think much of it at the time.)Third, Balon. Quite a prick but Stannis throws a leech in the fire and a bridge falls and kills him. (Seriously....)Fourth and fifth, Robb and Joffrey also die by Stannis' "leeches." I'm not there yet but I recall their deaths from the first time I read this book in 2001.That's four major characters that die in a disappointing manner, all because of this Melisandre. They were all major players in the civil war (four kings!) yet they seem to be manipulated by fate or this R'hllor god.It might just be me but I'm disappointed by how GRRM dispatched these characters. I liked it when people were fighting wars and making their own fate in a world falling to pieces. Now it seems that what made the story interesting, especially major characters, is dwindling. We lost four kings (two were absolutely hated and two were loved) all for a red woman who isn't that interesting and does one of two things, looks in the flames or says something repetitive about R'hllor.Do any of you feel disappointed by her? It seems as though the series and characters lost their free will and is now manipulated by fate and the red woman. We lost many characters to weak deaths. We all hated Joffrey but we wanted retribution (I was personally hoping for torture) not poison. We loved Robb (as we do all Starks [except maybe Catelyn--seriously? Trusting the Lannisters for Jamie?]) although I am prayer for retribution on the Freys. Balon was a jerk but maybe he could have died in battle with Robb. Renly seemed cool and it would have been cool to read about a war with Stannis.Anyways, that's my rant. I just feel that the series has lost some of it's flavour that made it interesting. I feel as a reader I'm losing the civil war for this titanic battle between R'hllor (I prefer the old gods) and the Lord of Darkness (whom I am assuming has some roll with the Others beyond the Wall).Thanks for reading and take care!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kephv Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 Fourth and fifth, Robb and Joffrey also die by Stannis' "leeches." They don't. They would've died regardless of her leeches as Tywin was plotting Robb's death even before she saw it in her fires, just as the Tyrell's were plotting Joffrey's. She just used that as another way to make them think she has more power than she actually does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leuf Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There's no proof of R'hllor actually existing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Malthred Storm Posted December 17, 2011 Share Posted December 17, 2011 There's no proof of R'hllor actually existing.There is no proof he doesn't exist either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Yeah Melisandre is disappointing character. C'mon, she gave birth to a shadow ? I almost dropped the book at that point because this scene is so so ridiculous. I hated it, really.I was quite glad then that she wasn't on the Blackwater, because it is actually boring that she just can influe on the events like this. Renly's death is quite disappointing, even though that was a surprise and changed the events in an unexpected way. Joffrey's and Robb's deaths were planned by other people, so we can't say they are due to Melisandre. We don't know much about the Greyjoys but I have a FFC in hands and just the fact that there is a map of the Iron Islands in it make me say we will soon learn more about them.At this point I kind of think Melisandre has some hints in the future, but she interpretes them the wrong way, as much of what she said about the true Ling could apply better to Dany (sorry I have no examples in mind), even though I still can say that Dany is the true Queen, as the Targaryen took the seven Kingdoms by force ages ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LuisDantas Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I don't think we are supposed to like or even respect Melisandre, any more than we are supposed to like, say, Janos Slynt or Littlefinger.As others said, I doubt the leech scene had anything to do with the deaths of Robb, Balon and Joffrey except perhaps in predicting them. In retrospect, they aren't particularly difficult predictions. All three of them were surrounded by ambitious rivals that presented themselves as allies, after all.It is hard for me to be disappointed by Melisandre, since I doubt we are to have any expectations towards her in the first place, other than that she obviously fulfills a role of a dangerous, fanatic loose canon. The only thing regarding Melisandre that disappoints me is that so many people play by her tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addie Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 Don't take me wrong, I'm disappointed in Melisandre and this particular scene under Storm's End not because the character is not likable, but because I think this is bad writing. The character in itself isn't loveable, but just the way Joffrey or Janos Slynt or many others are.But the birth thing is an easy trope (though tropes apply more to TV series), and actually a cheap one.I hope we will learn more about Balon's Greyjoy's death because right now it seems to eassy (he fell of ?), and probably Melisandre will play a part in the next book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Leo Targaryen Posted January 15, 2012 Share Posted January 15, 2012 I agree that the deaths of Balon, Robb and Joff cannot be attributed to Melisandre.But I also wasn't very happy with the shadow-killing scenes... but I guess they're part of a bigger plot. And R'hllor is appearing more and more to be one of the interpretations of Fire, fighting against the Icy Others... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Billings Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 Davos & Maester Aeemon see her for the fraud she is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wyman's cook Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 she did "try" to spare maester Cressen though...i don't think she's that bad as she seems, even though she does seem pretty bad.. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
addie Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 I would say Davos "saw" her, because we agree he's been burned, right ?I think she "sees" things but interprets them in the wrong way. And can't forgive the birth scene neither. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Kingmaker Posted January 16, 2012 Share Posted January 16, 2012 There's no proof of R'hllor actually existing.Tell it to Beric Dondarrion's sword. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chelly Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 I am not very fond of Mel, myself. I don't get how Stannis puts so much trust in her. She usually reads her fires wrong. I don't think she is repsonsible for the deaths of Balon, Joff, or Robb. The shadow baby was ridiculous.Even though I don't like her much in the books, I really want to see her in season 2, though. I just want to see how she is played and maybe the actress can make her more likeable. I am dying to see the shadow baby will be played out on tv as well, I watch True Blood so my "ridiculous nonsense tolerance level" is pretty damn high. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gingerly Grumkin Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Melisandre is a "bad guy" for sure. If Davos is most kickass then his enemy must not be right? Idk, i love Mel (granted im further than book 3) she is sooo cool! trust me you will learn to love her Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkyrist Posted January 22, 2012 Share Posted January 22, 2012 Yeah, but the death's of all three of those king's were set into motion long before Melisandre supposedly caused them. She probably just saw their fates in her fire, and took credit for them. As she reveals later on, much of her reputation is gained through trickery. I will give her Renly of course. That was all Melisandre, but she was required to be within walking distance of her target. Whereas, Joffrey's murder was likely arranged as far back as Littlefinger's meeting in Bitter Bridge, in book 2.I would have preferred that magic be kept out of the series, but Melisandre has proven that it's not the be-all-and-end all of a battle. Powerful as she is, she has not been able to secure Stannis' crown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calo760 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Melissandre is perhaps the most interesting character in the entire series. And in no way is she a villain. Those four kings deserved to die...even the arrogant Robb Stark who was going to fight for Stannis but lets hit bannermen manipulate him into declaring himself king. Don't even get me started on Renly.. pompous arrogant little shit would have killed Stannis if Mel's shadow hadn't killed him first. Reoccuring theme of the series... the nicer or "better" a person, the sooner they die :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calo760 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If you are seriously still rooting for a "nice" person at this point of the story you are in for a world of disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonBranRickon Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 If you are seriously still rooting for a "nice" person at this point of the story you are in for a world of disappointment Melissandre is perhaps the most interesting character in the entire series. And in no way is she a villain. Those four kings deserved to die...even the arrogant Robb Stark who was going to fight for Stannis but lets hit bannermen manipulate him into declaring himself king. Don't even get me started on Renly.. pompous arrogant little shit would have killed Stannis if Mel's shadow hadn't killed him first. Reoccuring theme of the series... the nicer or "better" a person, the sooner they die :) YOu have a very (stannis) tinted view of the GOT, Maybe you forgot your history but the Starks had as much right to th throne as the Baratheons and only bent the knee to the Dragons. Stannis is extremely obstinate and a even Robert wanted Eddard to rule with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuinedClaw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 I agree. I hope some bandit beats her to death with an iron cudgel soon. Seems a fitting death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuinedClaw Posted March 6, 2015 Share Posted March 6, 2015 Melissandre is perhaps the most interesting character in the entire series. And in no way is she a villain. Those four kings deserved to die...even the arrogant Robb Stark who was going to fight for Stannis but lets hit bannermen manipulate him into declaring himself king. Don't even get me started on Renly.. pompous arrogant little shit would have killed Stannis if Mel's shadow hadn't killed him first. Reoccuring theme of the series... the nicer or "better" a person, the sooner they die :) No, she isn't. She kills innocent people because they don't have the same religion as her. I hope she dies soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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