Unpopular Opinions, Because We Can Never Get Enough

[Woman of War]

Sorry, no editing at the moment so I have to waste a post

I forgot Arya! I definitely find her storyline gripping and interesting. This is something I posted before so in short: she reminds me of those third world child soldiers, lured into familiy surrogate structures only to be brutally turned into killing machines by a vile mixture of fake acceptance, threats, violence, offer of "adventures" and simply food, until they lost their personality, emotionally numbed, and can never go back because of the horrible things they did.

In RL those kids need intense psychological care to find back to life. I really want to find out how far down GRRM will go with Aryas storyline, this is - unpopular? - definitely not a waste of pages to me.

[redriver]

In general, I think Tyrion's bullying is a pretty nasty defense mechanism, and I don't think anyone's called him on it to date. I really wish that Maester Aemon or Donal Noye would've given Tyrion the same kind of advice they gave Jon, yet Aemon has nothing but praise for Tyrion.

Tyrion's a bully?

Has a new novel emerged that I haven't read yet?Was Joffrey a nice guy in your world?

[Evamitchelle]

Tyrion's a bully?

Has a new novel emerged that I haven't read yet?Was Joffrey a nice guy in your world?

Have you read any of the posts in this thread ? No one mentioned Joffrey, they're mainly talking about his treatment of women.

[Candor]

Voodooqueen:I've always wanted to be kidnapped by some creepy filthy man, live in poverty with no way of escaping it far away from my family.

Do you think that Rhaella Targaryen had a comfortable life being brutally raped by her husband the king without any recourse?

1.

People. It matters not if it's wildlings or Southerners. Women have shit to be dealing with, one is not superior to the other. The wildlings are more bold about it, but Southerns pretty it up with the marriage and betrothal traditions. Doesn't matter. Trauma is trauma, bad practices are bad practices. Even if it's pretty, even if it's bold, it's still bad for the woman. I would rate them as equally horrifying.

2.

I agree with Jon's decision to let in the Wildlings and I don't think it will be as much chaos causing as some imply. It's one of those things that I will have to see to believe. I think the times have changed and this was the smart course of action. Jon, I approve. And I think if anyone starts a fight by being stupid, it won't be the wildlings. My bet would be on Queen's men, prime possible antagonists there. Because they be cult-y ---------- DON'T DRINK THE KOOL-AID!

3.

So far most of the talk in this thread has been about Tyrion, but I'm sorry I just really, really have little interest in discussing him at the moment, so I'll keep it short and sweet. I don't agree with his treatment of the majority of women he crosses paths with (it's just bad), I don't find he'd make a particularly good husband, and I think he needs therapy if that could even help him at the point he's at at the end of ADWD. He's a sad little man, and yet I still like him somehow. Not as much as in AGOT/ACOK, but some. /end

[redriver]

Have you read any of the posts in this thread ? No one mentioned Joffrey, they're mainly talking about his treatment of women.

No,but I have read the books.Tyrion is certainly to the point and doesn't suffer fools gladly but I really don't get the bullying argument.He treats Sansa and Penny with respect,Cersei with the contempt she deserves and Shae as the traitor she was.

[Raksha the Demon]

Do you think that Rhaella Targaryen had a comfortable life being brutally raped by her husband the king without any recourse?

No, but her life was better than that of Craster's daughters/wives; and seemed to be better than the life of Jeyne Poole as Ramsey's wife.

It would be nice if the next Queen of Westeros was neither raped/beaten (Rhaella, Cersei) or imprisoned (Margaery).

What's rather sad is that, as I remember, Dany was conceived by her insane father's violent rape of her mother.

[Evamitchelle]

No,but I have read the books.Tyrion is certainly to the point and doesn't suffer fools gladly but I really don't get the bullying argument.He treats Sansa and Penny with respect,Cersei with the contempt she deserves and Shae as the traitor she was.

See the prostitutes in ADwD : "It might please m'lord to strangle you. That's how I served my last whore. Do you think your master would object? Surely not. He has a hundred more like you, but no one else like me." I'd call that bullying, at the very least.

[Noimporta]

No,but I have read the books.Tyrion is certainly to the point and doesn't suffer fools gladly but I really don't get the bullying argument.He treats Sansa and Penny with respect,Cersei with the contempt she deserves and Shae as the traitor she was.

Hopefully I can answer before the thread goes on about Tyrion for 3 more pages. He doesn't really treat Penny with respect, if anything, he's extremely condescending, but it's true he eventually grows to care for her. And while there can be pages long arguments as to whether Shae is a vile traitor, a blameless martyr and everything in between, it's generally agreed that murdering her was wrong.

[Miryana]

See the prostitutes in ADwD : "It might please m'lord to strangle you. That's how I served my last whore. Do you think your master would object? Surely not. He has a hundred more like you, but no one else like me." I'd call that bullying, at the very least.

Tyrion's development reminds me of Tywin, a connection that has probably been made before. Tywin's father is pushed around by his men? Tywin hands out disproportionate punishment every chance he gets so no one will laugh at him. Tyrion is bullied? He develops sympathy for some cripples and broken things, but ultimately responds by becoming a bully to those he does have in his power in order to compensate for his own experiences of powerlessness. ADWD was a horrible low point for the character (after ASOS I found Tyrion-the-wronged-saint arguments frustrating, but even I didn't expect him to end up as hateful, especially towards women, as he did). I don't know whether he's going to recognise his culpability for his situation and make an effort to grow as a person, or go on as before and feel that dragonriding/being Dany's Hand/Lord of the Rock vindicates it all and continue blaming his dwarfism rather than the choices he made for how people treat him.

[Val the Wildling Princess]

Jon:

IF jon is alive and not Undead - what would be his possibilities to continue? I would definitely not mind if he gets free of his Nightwatch vows and becomes the hope of the North and finally the heir to Winterfell. This would form a kind of happy ending to me.

And in the long run this may happen because in the war with the Others such formal structures may become rather irrelevant, together with their vows - but maybe the big houses and the Iron Throne as institutions as well.

But in the short run: I liked the political Jon far better than the boy who was all vows and oaths. And I seriously hope that there is not one more undead. So if he survived, what would he be as an acting protagonist?

The "unpopular opinion" in this is that I liked the later Jon so much more than the younger one when he was Ned writ young. He grew above that and I would seriously miss his character by now.

I'm actually with you on this one. I love "both" Jons, but LC Jon was quite awesome. I want him back (just not UnJon, please) and become a badass cold- as- freaking- ice leader for the northern people (The ice dragon!) And well, it would be perfect if he gets Val and Winterfell too, but I guess that's too much of a happy ending and Martin won't give us something like that <_<

[EdricBaratheon]

No, but her life was better than that of Craster's daughters/wives; and seemed to be better than the life of Jeyne Poole as Ramsey's wife.

It would be nice if the next Queen of Westeros was neither raped/beaten (Rhaella, Cersei) or imprisoned (Margaery).

What's rather sad is that, as I remember, Dany was conceived by her insane father's violent rape of her mother.

It is a sad thought to of course think about, but does highlight that some people are not born out of love, but of selfish acts or other intentions and desires.

I think the treatment or highborn women by cruel, sadistic characters; such as Joffrey-Sansa, Aerys-Rhaella, Ramsay-Jeyne, etc.. just goes on to provide the sterotype that women cannot ever hope to grasp on power, that men are the supierior gender in a sexist society. This of course can be further noted by the treatment of whores by Tyrion and other characters, the qquotes of course however have been stated throughout the thread!

[redriver]

See the prostitutes in ADwD : "It might please m'lord to strangle you. That's how I served my last whore. Do you think your master would object? Surely not. He has a hundred more like you, but no one else like me." I'd call that bullying, at the very least.

What we may be able to agree on is that the Tyrion who is presented in the first few chapters of ADWD is not a nice guy.He has twice been falsely accused of murder,based on false testimony of women-(Catelyn.Cersei,Shae,Taenna),twice been found guilty and sentenced to death,betrayed by his family,unrecognised as the hero he was before and during the Blackwater Battle,vilified for not consumating his marriage to Sansa,inter alia.

Kind of enough to piss anyone off,really.

So yes,we have a bitter and angry Tyrion,but one who mellows and returns to his true character as the events of ADWD unfold

[David Selig]

Tyrion's "true" character is deeply misogynistic right from the start and he's always been a major jerk.

[Alexia]

I really would have liked to see him have a prolonged relationship with Septa Lemore, it would have been good for Tyrion to have a female friend who was intelligent, attractive, with a sense of humor, who was not a focus for sexual desire/jealousy/rage. I also had the feeling that Septa Lemore liked Tyrion as a person...

Why would I speak here when I can let Tyrion speak for himself?

"How did you sleep?"

"Fitfully, good lady. I dreamed of you again." A waking dream. He could not sleep, so he had eased a hand between his legs and imagined the septa atop him, breasts bouncing.

***

The dwarf watched Lemore slip into the water. The sight always made him hard. There was something wonderfully wicked about the thought of peeling the septa out of those chaste white robes and spreading her legs.

***

Like everyone else aboard the Shy Maid, she had her secrets. She was welcome to them. I do not want to know her, I only want to fuck her.

***

Haldon took note of her change of garb as well. "What are we to make of this sudden loss of faith? I preferred you in your septa's robes, Lemore."

"I preferred her naked," said Tyrion.

***

Septa Lemore deserves better than a man who doesn't care about getting to know her, only about fucking her, and she was most certainly a focus for his sexual desire.

[Xray the Enforcer]

[mod] Let's keep this discussion constructive. [/mod]

[1234567]

Okay I have another unpopular idea.

In AGOT Cersei is portrayed as quite a competent Villain. In AFFC she becomes quite useless. Cersei was competent while Robert was King and there were a system of checks and balances on her. She became cavalier once they had been removed.

I would like to suggest that the exact same thing was happening with Tywin before his death. Up until the Battle of Blackwater, even when he was Hand to Aerys, there were checks and balances on him. After the BBW he was effectively in charge (as Cersei was in AFFC) and actually made some spectacularly bad decisions in a manic power grab.

[redriver]

Why hello Tyrion! Escape from the novels, did we? Such a sweet charmer you are -- nice to see that you are still in character!

:stillsick:

Septa Lemore is flirtatious and sexy despite being around "40"-that is how she is presented in ADWD.Tyrion has astutely worked out the real identities of Griff and Young Griff.

Perhaps the clever Septa has used her sexuality to divert Tyrion from her real identity as Ashara Dayne?

Either way she plays on her physical charms with Tyrion,and he reacts in a typical male way-even the Hound would have reacted the same way. :drool:

[brashcandy]

Septa Lemore is flirtatious and sexy despite being around "40"-that is how she is presented in ADWD.Tyrion has astutely worked out the real identities of Griff and Young Griff.

Perhaps the clever Septa has used her sexuality to divert Tyrion from her real identity as Ashara Dayne?

Either way she plays on her physical charms with Tyrion,and he reacts in a typical male way-even the Hound would have reacted the same way. :drool:

Now you couldn't leave well enough alone, huh? You had to bring the Hound into it? :) Seriously, not having the benefit of a Sandor POV, we can't say one way or another how he would have reacted, but Sandor - even through the lenses of others - is not shown perving over women/any woman. It's pretty well established that he has an inappropriate crush on Sansa Stark and he's fighting his own demons with that. What bothers people I believe with Tyrion, is that no woman goes unmolested in his gaze. He seems to define them all by their physical attractiveness, their "fuckability" and this comes to determine the kind of relationship he envisions developing with them.

Septa Lemore clearly was doing stuff that came very naturally to her. She is comfortable with her body and her femininity, but she wasn't flaunting it for Tyrion's benefit, or in order to figure into his sex dreams at night. Some men are actually able to see an attractive woman, and still interact with her as a person, and feel no desire to get between her legs.

[Alexia]

What bothers people I believe with Tyrion, is that no woman goes unmolested in his gaze. He seems to define them all by their physical attractiveness, their "fuckability" and this comes to determine the kind of relationship he envisions developing with them.

Tyrion doesn't look at a woman and see a human being with feelings. He looks at a woman and sees a walking vagina. That is the sole basis of what he evaluates every woman he interacts with on.

***

Like everyone else aboard the Shy Maid, she had her secrets. She was welcome to them. I do not want to know her, I only want to fuck her.

***

"Will you give me your name? No? I suppose I shall settle for your cunt. Have you ever bedded a monster before? Now's as good a time as any. Out of your clothes and onto your back, if it please you. Or not."

***

A little honest loathing might be refreshing, like a tart wine after too much sweet.

"I believe I have changed my mind. Wait for me abed. Naked, if you please. I'll be a deal too drunk to fumble at your clothing. Keep your mouth shut and your thighs open and the two of us should get on splendidly. Do you moan when you are being fucked?"

"If it please m'lord."

"It might please m'lord to strangle you. That's how I served my last whore. Do you think your master would object? Surely not. He has a hundred more like you, but no one else like me."

***

"The queen has offered a lordship to the man who brings her your head, no matter how humble his birth."

"If you mean to take her up on it, make her spread her legs for you as well. The best part of me for the best part of her, that's a fair trade."

***

"They say her lust cannot be sated, that she mates with me, women, eunuchs, even dogs and children, and woe betide the lover who fails to satisfy her. She gives her body to men to take their souls in thrall.

Oh, good, thought Tyrion. If she gives her body to me, she is welcome to my soul, small and stunted though it is.

***

"What do you plan to offer the dragon queen, little man?"

"Whatever she would have of me. Sage counsel, savage wit, a bit of tumbling. My cock, if she desires it. My tongue, if she does not. I will lead her armies or rub her feet, as she desires. And the only reward I ask is I might be allowed to rape and kill my sister."

***

"Half his nose is gone. His eyes don't match neither. An ill-favored thing."

"My lady hasn't seen my best part yet." Tyrion grabbed his crotch, in case she missed his meaning.

***

Christ Almighty, how many of these vile quotes are there? :ack: I'll stop for now, but what a wonderful little husband Tyrion would make, indeed.

[headtrip_honey]

Now you couldn't leave well enough alone, huh? You had to bring the Hound into it? :) Seriously, not having the benefit of a Sandor POV, we can't say one way or another how he would have reacted, but Sandor - even through the lenses of others - is not shown perving over women/any woman. It's pretty well established that he has an inappropriate crush on Sansa Stark and he's fighting his own demons with that. What bothers people I believe with Tyrion, is that no woman goes unmolested in his gaze. He seems to define them all by their physical attractiveness, their "fuckability" and this comes to determine the kind of relationship he envisions developing with them.

you know ily brash, but uh sandor totes leered over sansa regarding her "teats" most inappropriately so although that was a one time event it was still perving