Jump to content

R+L=J v.18


Angalin

Recommended Posts

I don't think Jon is older, but if he is I don't see what it changes, or why it matters. For all we know, Lyanna could have sent for Ned, knowing she would die, She needed him to take care of Jon, in her absence.

Im not saying that's how Ned knew where she was, but it might be a possibility.

I agree thats a strong possibility, however it still leaves the question of why the kingsguards and northmen begin fighting unanswered. If Lyanna sent for Ned in a weakened state surely one if not all of them would have knowledge of this and would be anticipating him and his party.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How does Ned know to find Lyanna in Dorne? Surely someone had to tip him off and that person would have knowledge of R+L's true relationship and maybe even that she is with child? That person is the key to unwrapping alot of unsaid information...that or a Howland Reed POV...

I'm keen on the idea that Ashara Dayne tipped him off. They have a history, her brother was there, Starfall was probably the supply and staff source, the Daynes were Targaryen loyalists. It makes sense that she'd know what was going on. It also adds to the tragedy of her suicide, if you believe she committed suicide — she would've been the one to lead Ned to the Tower, which in turn led to the death of her brother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gods be good !!!!

I just read the new released chapter from The Winds of Winter (it wasn't really as long as a chapter but, I don't know what else to call it)

And it was freaking awesome!!!! For all those who haven't read it I suggest you google it, because it could possibly change some of our theory's.

Ahhh so awesome!!!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree thats a strong possibility, however it still leaves the question of why the kingsguards and northmen begin fighting unanswered. If Lyanna sent for Ned in a weakened state surely one if not all of them would have knowledge of this and would be anticipating him and his party.

Maybe she begged a handmaid to send a raven in secret. Or maybe the kingsguard allowed Lyanna to send a raven, and maybe they knew Ned was coming (if you remenber in Ned's memory in GoT, one of the KG was honing his sword with a wet stone when Ned and Co. first got there.) if this situation is true, maybe the 3 KG just wanted to go out with a BANG, fighting the man who is half responsible for the death of Rhaegar, and the down fall of the Targaryen dynasty???? I can see that. We know the 3 KG left at the ToJ, had no intention of kneeling down to Robert, like Ser Barriston did. They wanted to die with sword in hand, what better way than 3 vs 7 (especially when these 7 where highly active in the rebellion???)

Just an idea. I could be very wrong.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Gods be good !!!!

I just read the new released chapter from The Winds of Winter (it wasn't really as long as a chapter but, I don't know what else to call it)

And it was freaking awesome!!!! For all those who haven't read it I suggest you google it, because it could possibly change some of our theory's.

Ahhh so awesome!!!

Which one? The Theon chapter, or another? I only skimmed through it but didn't notice anything concerning R+L

Maybe she begged a handmaid to send a raven in secret. Or maybe the kingsguard allowed Lyanna to send a raven, and maybe they knew Ned was coming (if you remenber in Ned's memory in GoT, one of the KG was honing his sword with a wet stone when Ned and Co. first got there.) if this situation is true, maybe the 3 KG just wanted to go out with a BANG, fighting the man who is half responsible for the death of Rhaegar, and the down fall of the Targaryen dynasty???? I can see that. We know the 3 KG left at the ToJ, had no intention of kneeling down to Robert, like Ser Barriston did. They wanted to die with sword in hand, what better way than 3 vs 7 (especially when these 7 where highly active in the rebellion???)

Just an idea. I could be very wrong.

I do agree with the BANG part; however, I'm unsure if Lyanna truly contacted Ned. For all they knew, he could be coming to dispose of the babe, sister's or not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Which one? The Theon chapter, or another? I only skimmed through it but didn't notice anything concerning R+L

I do agree with the BANG part; however, I'm unsure if Lyanna truly contacted Ned. For all they knew, he could be coming to dispose of the babe, sister's or not.

The Theon chapter is what I just found out about, and I know it doesn't have anything to do with the R+L= J theory. I just mean other people's theory's like if Stannis is alive etc.. What we learn from that Theon chapter could change some views for some people.

But I like your idea that the KG fought back, because they believed Ned meant to harm Jon. I too had considered something like that in an other thread.

And sorry if The Theon chapter released is old news, I just found out about it, and just read it today.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In ADwD we have the emergence, for the first time in the series, of another credible character whose presence at the tower would explain the Kingsguard trio's actions. Prior to this we had every indication that Aegon was dead, and it may well be that that is still the case and Young Griff is in truth a "mummer's dragon." I, like many others, think he is a fake, but the possibility he is the real deal can't be ignored.

If Aegon is in truth Rhaegar's son and he is at the tower, then the presence of all three remaining loyal and free members of the Kingsguard is explained without having to conclude they all chose to break their vows. Their actions, just as in the case of Aegon being dead and Jon being the legitimate son of Rhaegar and Lyanna, are easily understood - they are there in fulfillment of their first duty to guard their king.

Now, could Aegon have been at the tower? I think we have to, at this point, based on Young Griff's tale of a baby switch engineered by Varys, say that it is possible, although we have no story yet linking him there. If the switch occurred, then it is not out of the question to think the heir to the throne was hidden, along with Lyanna, in the Prince's Pass under the trio's protection, and was then smuggled out of the country in Lady Ashara's care.

My problem with this, of course, is that we are relying on Varys to have really done this thing and remained true to the Targaryen cause throughout the years AND we have this large neon sign calling Aegon a fake in Daenerys's prophecy. I think he IS a fake, but I also don't think we can conclude that's the case just yet.

How did anybody get past Ned and Howland reed.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I was not aware of it until your post so thank you.

Your very welcome,

I was reading another forum, and someone posted a theory and said that the new Theon chapter released, supports their theory.

So I was like oh cool......WAIT, what a new Theon chapter released!?!?!?!?

And then I googled it, and read it, and it was so awesome...... But I was really surprised that I have only seen one post about it, so I figured it must be fairly new? But I guess it could be old news. Today was just the first chatter I had read about it. And I have read tons of chatter on the Arianne chapter read by GRRM (at World Con, I think). So yeah I decided to post about it for anyone else out there like me, who didn't know about it. Needless to say, I posted about it on all 7 different forums that I am currently reading and posting on.... I know I'm a nerd, but I am very excited about it, and I want everyone (who doesn't know about it) to get a chance to read it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Your very welcome,

I was reading another forum, and someone posted a theory and said that the new Theon chapter released, supports their theory.

So I was like oh cool......WAIT, what a new Theon chapter released!?!?!?!?

And then I googled it, and read it, and it was so awesome...... But I was really surprised that I have only seen one post about it, so I figured it must be fairly new? But I guess it could be old news. Today was just the first chatter I had read about it. And I have read tons of chatter on the Arianne chapter read by GRRM (at World Con, I think). So yeah I decided to post about it for anyone else out there like me, who didn't know about it. Needless to say, I posted about it on all 7 different forums that I am currently reading and posting on.... I know I'm a nerd, but I am very excited about it, and I want everyone (who doesn't know about it) to get a chance to read it.

You could be doing a lot worse things than being a "nerd." :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You could be doing a lot worse things than being a "nerd." :)

Lol trust me I know, I wasn't always a nerd. But I find it much more affordable to be addicted to these books, in comparison to heroin.(not to mention the thousands of other reasons lol)

Long story short, I'm much happier being a nerd reading these books.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lol trust me I know, I wasn't always a nerd. But I find it much more affordable to be addicted to these books, in comparison to heroin.(not to mention the thousands of other reasons lol)

Long story short, I'm much happier being a nerd reading these books.

Well, good for you.

My friends ask me why "I'm into this," and I say, "well why are you into what your into?"

They like poker, go to Vegas, etc.

They don't have a gambling problem, but that their version of "fun," but thats not me.

Anyway, have a great 2012. :)

And have fun with this site.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know I've been thinking. In the likely case this theory is correct, then I believe Lord Howland Reed not only knows, but has undeniable proof.

Think about it, he hasn't left the Neck since the end of Robert's Rebellion in spite of being one of Eddard's closest friends. He clearly didn't have an issue with leaving his seat before the rebellion (he met Eddard Stark at a tournament), so why would he be so cautious after the fact? Keeping proof of Ned's "bastard" really being the legitimate Targaryen heir could explain this change of behavior.

And Greywater Watch is the perfect place to keep something secret and safe. The castle sits within the bogs and swamps of the Neck upon a floating isle. As a result it's virtually impossible to find.

So then the question must be, why would Eddard let Howland Reed keep proof of Jon's true parentage. Given his character, it's possible he just wanted to be able to show Jon absolute proof when the time came. But it's also possible he wanted to keep ahold of it in case the Targaryen's ever tried to make a comeback. As a son of Rhaegar, Jon would outrank both Viserys and Daenerys. A little underhanded for Eddard, but not outside the realm of possibility, especially if it was Howland Reed's idea.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You know I've been thinking. In the likely case this theory is correct, then I believe Lord Howland Reed not only knows, but has undeniable proof.

Think about it, he hasn't left the Neck since the end of Robert's Rebellion in spite of being one of Eddard's closest friends. He clearly didn't have an issue with leaving his seat before the rebellion (he met Eddard Stark at a tournament), so why would he be so cautious after the fact? Keeping proof of Ned's "bastard" really being the legitimate Targaryen heir could explain this change of behavior.

And Greywater Watch is the perfect place to keep something secret and safe. The castle sits within the bogs and swamps of the Neck upon a floating isle. As a result it's virtually impossible to find.

So then the question must be, why would Eddard let Howland Reed keep proof of Jon's true parentage. Given his character, it's possible he just wanted to be able to show Jon absolute proof when the time came. But it's also possible he wanted to keep ahold of it in case the Targaryen's ever tried to make a comeback. As a son of Rhaegar, Jon would outrank both Viserys and Daenerys. A little underhanded for Eddard, but not outside the realm of possibility, especially if it was Howland Reed's idea.

I wonder if Meera or more likely Jojen have any knowledge of Jon Snows true parentage.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Before the rebellion, Howland Reed was a young man. Now he's a Lord with his duties, possibly not also in the best of health, that may be the reason why he does not leave the Greywater Watch. I do believe that he knows the truth of Jon's parentage, and that the letter Ned wanted to say via Varys would be "go talk to HW" or something like that. After ADwD, I believe HW is going to play an important role, because of Rickon and/or Ned's bones, which I hope made it so far and are now safely kept at GW. - Which reminds me: "bones remember". Is this supposed to hint that we might see a little necromancy, a spiritistic seance or similar stuff, to extract the information from Ned himself?

- Also: once Bran becomes proficient with his visions through weirwood, he may came across a couple of things, as well.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone put forth a clever theory sometime back the possibility of Meera being Jons twin.

(I know, some really don't like that, but when the poster put forward the entire theory, it was pretty good).

In Mels vision, she sees Jons "sister" coming to Castle Black because she's injured.

And we've seen several female candidates, but none that matches Mels vision, because they clearly are not his sisters that we expect.

But, Meera will at some point have to make her way back, and probably runs into trouble along the way.

Arya is too far away, but if Jon is who he is, neither Sansa, nor Arya are his sisters.

I know strong women can die in childbirth, but Lyanna dying is somewhat surprising when sickly Elia hung in there. But having twins could really be complicated.

Of course Mel could be wrong too.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Someone put forth a clever theory sometime back the possibility of Meera being Jons twin.

(I know, some really don't like that, but when the poster put forward the entire theory, it was pretty good).

In Mels vision, she sees Jons "sister" coming to Castle Black because she's injured.

And we've seen several female candidates, but none that matches Mels vision, because they clearly are not his sisters that we expect.

But, Meera will at some point have to make her way back, and probably runs into trouble along the way.

Arya is too far away, but if Jon is who he is, neither Sansa, nor Arya are his sisters.

I know strong women can die in childbirth, but Lyanna dying is somewhat surprising when sickly Elia hung in there. But having twins could really be complicated.

Of course Mel could be wrong too.

Unless I'm very mistaken, I think you're putting too much stock into Melisandre's interpretation of her vision.

The "girl in grey on a dying horse" was Alys Karstark. Melisandre didn't see who it was clearly, and simply assumed it could be Arya because that's who Jon Snow wanted it to be. There was nothing in the vision that explicitly identified the girl as a blood relative of Jon.

GRRM probably included it as a straightforward example of Melisandre misinterpreting her own vision.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Unless I'm very mistaken, I think you're putting too much stock into Melisandre's interpretation of her vision.

The "girl in grey on a dying horse" was Alys Karstark. Melisandre didn't see who it was clearly, and simply assumed it could be Arya because that's who Jon Snow wanted it to be. There was nothing in the vision that explicitly identified the girl as a blood relative of Jon.

GRRM probably included it as a straightforward example of Melisandre misinterpreting her own vision.

No, Mel wouldn't be my navigator in life, but the posters concept was interesting as far as alternative theories, or explainations for Lyannas death in childbirth goes.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just rereading the Bran II chapter in adwd and somehow didnt notice this quote through my first read.

"...let them grow up close as brothers, with only love between them."

If he is not talking about Jon and Robb who else could he be referring to?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...