Star Wars: The Old Republic: Episode II

[Kosciuszko]

Good to know all that. Makes me happy that they have all that brokeness- plan is to hit 50 and run some of this before the first major patches hit. Never really been part of that wave of level capped players at the start before.

Level 45 and I'm finally starting to feel like I can take a punch. Kind of want to run a 4-man heroic, though, to see how Annihilate fares. It's nice to have 1500-3k damage attack every 8 seconds, in addition to all my DoTs though. Everything seems to die much faster.

[Galactus]

The one thing I would have liked would be a "teleport to group" tool. Like Recal Friend in COH. Becuase as-is you usally spend about half an hour waiting for someone to trek from oe end of the planet to another...

[Shryke]

Well I guess it all depends on what your priorities are in an MMO. I love that swtor has no active LFG tool and I hope it is never introduced. I can see how anyone who has played WoW and gotten used to the Dungeon Finder would be annoyed at how hard and time consuming forming a group is. Like going from piped hot water to a water-heater that runs on firewood. Well guess what - it's intended to run on wood. You are supposed to work to make a group, to find the right people, to travel to the flashpoint, to assist anyone who can't find it, to be patient with other people. If you cannot do that don't play MMOs, you lack the social skills required.

Spamming general chat till enough people answer is a social skill now?

I mean, I get the whole "it builds character" thing, but you do realise it was just a excuse your dad came up with to make you shut up and do your chores, right?

Like, making a system harder to use is not itself a good thing. Like, we invented gas/electric water-heaters for a reason.

I mean, back in the day we had to con 2 people to join the warlock in flying out to the dungeon entrance to summon the rest of us. But this wasn't a good thing.

I've made more friends in a week of doing flashpoints than I did in the entire lifespan of post-dungeon finder WoW. Most of them are former WoW players too, but you should see the joy in their faces when we complete a 3h hard mode flashpoint against all odds. When we defeat Revan hard mode (who is bugged and 1-shots everyone), after 15 wipes, despite countless forum posts advising everyone to just give up until fix. You cannot experience this in WoW any longer, this distinct form of pleasure was only in stock in until wotlk, before the dungeon finder came around.

Actually the "distinct form of pleasure" you are referring to is only in stock till they fix bugs. You can still find it in WoW if you like playing on the PTR.

People who are aware that there is no fast and easy way to rush through the content and get their loot are so much more polite and inclined to compromise and spend time for the sake of the group and the group achievement. For if they misbehave, leave without warning and reason, ninja loot or make any form of bad impression they will not be called again by the other group members.

Yes, they will just find other group members instead.

Seriously, you have Stockholm Syndrome, seek help.

[Solmyr]

No shryke, I rarely ever write in General chat. Used to do that in the first 3-4 days of playing, then I established a list of friends and who I can call upon and do flashpoints with. Worst case scenario, I ask people using the /who function, conversing with each individually and taking the time to convince him to join my group, if he so desires.

As for the rest of your points, I find them so alien and distorted, I would not comment. If you go back and reread my post, you will see that I build my arguments on the premise that different players may have different priorities. I explained what mine are and how swtor tends to them.

In general I've long ago found out that your priorities in particular are very different from mine and I do not understand why you take the time and effort to bring it up time and time again.

Finally, building offensive metaphors on a questionable premise is probably why you defend the dungeon finder system, for a game experience, which is devoid of social interaction, suits your personality better.

[Max the Mostly Mediocre]

Well I guess it all depends on what your priorities are in an MMO. I love that swtor has no active LFG tool and I hope it is never introduced. I can see how anyone who has played WoW and gotten used to the Dungeon Finder would be annoyed at how hard and time consuming forming a group is. Like going from piped hot water to a water-heater that runs on firewood. Well guess what - it's intended to run on wood. You are supposed to work to make a group, to find the right people, to travel to the flashpoint, to assist anyone who can't find it, to be patient with other people. If you cannot do that don't play MMOs, you lack the social skills required.

Yes, I thought the objections came from a form of elitism, but no one was quite willing to make it explicit. You are. Thanks for that.

Regardless, even if we postulate that the developers accept and endorse your vision of reality, DDO's LFG tool is the absolute minimum that should have been implemented. It wasn't.

The one thing I would have liked would be a "teleport to group" tool. Like Recal Friend in COH. Becuase as-is you usally spend about half an hour waiting for someone to trek from oe end of the planet to another...

And, yes, this. These are solved problems, Bioware. You can go look at what other people did and just, y'know, copy them. I know you wanted travel to be a timesink, but for fuck's sake, show some restraint.

On a related note: aside from the daily rewards, there is no incentive to win a PvP match. Getting medals does far more for you than winning the match will. Golfclap.

[Shryke]

No shryke, I rarely ever write in General chat. Used to do that in the first 3-4 days of playing, then I established a list of friends and who I can call upon and do flashpoints with. Worst case scenario, I ask people using the /who function, conversing with each individually and taking the time to convince him to join my group, if he so desires.

As for the rest of your points, I find them so alien and distorted, I would not comment. If you go back and reread my post, you will see that I build my arguments on the premise that different players may have different priorities. I explained what mine are and how swtor tends to them.

In general I've long ago found out that your priorities in particular are very different from mine and I do not understand why you take the time and effort to bring it up time and time again.

Finally, building offensive metaphors on a questionable premise is probably why you defend the dungeon finder system, for a game experience, which is devoid of social interaction, suits your personality better.

What offensive metaphor? I defend the dungeon finder system on the premise that it saves me time and removes useless crap from my time in game. I mean, I guess "I like to have my time wasted, it builds character" is a point of view that would make understanding normal people a very alien experience for you.

Gotta love the elitism though. Obviously a dungeon finder system is only for the plebeians and riff-raff who can't communicate with other people, amiright?

Shit, just eliminate the cross-server part of a dungeon finder system and it's no different from the normal way people form groups, except apparently those who despise spamming gen-chat for ages are socially maladjusted or something. :lol:

[paddington]

I'd perfer a LFG tool, only because then I could turn off General Chat.

[Relic]

What offensive metaphor? I defend the dungeon finder system on the premise that it saves me time and removes useless crap from my time in game. I mean, I guess "I like to have my time wasted, it builds character" is a point of view that would make understanding normal people a very alien experience for you.

Gotta love the elitism though. Obviously a dungeon finder system is only for the plebeians and riff-raff who can't communicate with other people, amiright?

Shit, just eliminate the cross-server part of a dungeon finder system and it's no different from the normal way people form groups, except apparently those who despise spamming gen-chat for ages are socially maladjusted or something. :lol:

oh please. get off his dick.

Anyway, there WILL BE a LFG system at some point, obviously. It took WoW 5 years to get there and while you can say Bioware should have learned and had it from the start i sort of disagree. The MMO world SHOULD be huge and daunting at first. One of the issues i have with WoW is that it's curently all about the end game grind. I can level a 85 in about 4 days played, without paying the sightest bit of attention to a single word in my quest log, without interacting with a single played on my server. Why not just give me a fully lvled character at that point? What's the point of leveling when it's so easy a new born monkey could do it?

We can argue about who is right or who is wrong except...there is no actual right or wrong here. Bioware wants leveling and shit to consume X amount of time because they dont have a whole lot of thrilling end game content. Once they do they will speed the lvling process up. If it's really annoying or terrible or makes you hate the game...there are about 8 million other games you could play until SWTOR becomes more casual friendly.

That said i agree the travel time sink is a pain in the ass.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Been playing since a few days before launch and have a 34 Marauder, 20 Commando and 18 Powertech among a few others (altoholism's no joke, folks :P ).

After reading Kosciusko's posts throughout this thread, I'm seriously rethinking my Carnage spec on my Marauder. Soloing heroics? At early levels I probably could have (especially now that I understand the mechanics of the class a little more fully). But now? without being able to pick off one elite at a time I don't see how it would be possible. The squishiness is an understatement. Cloak of Pain and Saber Ward have saved my ass more times than I can count, but taking on (for example) two strongs and a standard can be a tough fight to survive, especially if I get adds.

I noticed that things got a lot tougher for me once I got to Alderaan (at 28, I believe). Had no real issues up to that point while soloing or grouping, but thus far through Alderaan/Taris it seems I'm having to heal up from about half health after nearly every fight. Gear is not an issue as I'm much better geared now (commendation oranges with the best mods I can find) than on earlier planets. So I'm thinking it's maybe my spec. I really looked over Annihilation last night and all the bleed stuff looked intriguing.

Of course, another distinct possibility that I'm just a recovering lazy WoW player who's used to casually breezing through everything but endgame content. If that sounds like I'm bitching, I'm not - so far I have found the added challenge to be refreshing with a much greater sense of accomplishment, and hopefully this will get me out of the bad gaming habits I'd developed in WoW. I'm actually having to think about my strategy for approaching a group of mobs, and I consider that a positive. Of course this is even more pronounced in group play - to Solmyr's point, group play in TOR is incredibly more satisfying than WoW. Like, off the scale. No comparison.

Overall, even with my slight struggles in progression (which again, are probably my own fault), the game has exceeded every expectation up to this point. I spent all afternoon Saturday lost in my Marauder's story, as I gained a new...companion through a thrilling, wholly unexpected (as I'd not spoiled myself prior), and thoroughly Star Wars-y series of events. Never had a single moment like that in 5 years of playing WoW.

[Relic]

I noticed that things got a lot tougher for me once I got to Alderaan (at 28, I believe).

Make sure you stack +cunning gear on Quinn. I was very blase about getting him geared until i finally realized his heals were hitting me for next to nothing and all the mobs started doing way more dmg.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Make sure you stack +cunning gear on Quinn. I was very blase about getting him geared until i finally realized his heals were hitting me for next to nothing and all the mobs started doing way more dmg.

Thanks. I haven't been as attentive to his gear as I was to Vette's and, erm, Companion #3. I'll work on it.

[Arakasi]

I agree with Solmyr in that putting in a LFD system equivalent to WOW would not benefit the game. That system imo was the major culprit in the killing of community in WOW and it shouldn't be replicated here. With no control over who you're grouping players aren't really responsible for what they do since if they're a dick there is no consequences to what they do. At the best what you get is polite people you say hi to, soullessly grind the dungeon for Victory Points and doing it again and again with an endless supply of faceless/nameless players you'll never see again. I do agree that port to dungeon is a good feature that should be implemented though.

Problem for us though is that really this game is just Mass Effect dialog trees plus WOW as far as gameplay goes. I like the story and we're playing to 50 on each side to experience that, but other than that the game lacks any newness or freshness. It feels like a buggy WOW clone mechanically from playing it. While many of those bugs will be fixed, I'm not sure if major UI customizations or features like mouseover or movable bars are coming anytime soon. I'm already at the point where I have more skills I can put on my bottom two bars then space to put them, and it is only going to get worse.

And since this game pretty much is a WOW clone, it wouldn't surprise me if they went full in and copied the LFD system from WOW. Hopefully they don't though. The point for me though is no matter what they do, this game is going to keep being a WOW clone and there is nothing at this point that can change that. Which is fine and all, but I quit WOW for many reasons and I never want to play that game again.

[haLobEnder]

The one thing I would have liked would be a "teleport to group" tool. Like Recal Friend in COH. Becuase as-is you usally spend about half an hour waiting for someone to trek from oe end of the planet to another...

I couldn't agree more with this. Usually it's me who has to do the treking too, much to the annoyance of anyone I group with.

If fact, I think there are several things wrong with grouping as it stands, the other big one being that when you die it's easy to lose track of your group if one spawns back at the medcenter and the others don't.

Having never played an MMO before, I'm not sure if these things are standard, but these seem like things the genre as a whole would have figured out by now. In many ways this game feels like a single player experience forced into the confines of an MMO.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

@Kosciusko

Perusing the first SWTOR thread here and saw that you play on Rubat Crystal - that's where I play! Small world. ^_^

[Tyrellius]

I can't quite find the source, but I am sure I read on Bioware's forums that a LFG will not be forthcoming.

Got to level 41 as my Marauder. Please, for the love of the force, No more abilities. I have too many keybinds and now need to sort out my quickslots better so I can watch the CD better while keeping an eye on the enemies cast bar.

Archaelogy is up to 380 now, artifice 380ish and Treasure hunting 250ish. I have no plans on rerolling my professions as I've infested quite a bit into reverse engineering artifice recipes. Solymr if you can keep the grenade after dropping that profession, I dont see a reason why the biochem flask thingie should be any different. Unless it actually says on the item "Only usable by biochemists of XX level".

I'm sure there are forums with suggestions on biowares own site but things I would really like to see sorted out are

• Searching by guild and adding offline friends to your list
  
• Improved Galactic Trade Network user menus. As someone wanting to sell large amounts of crafted shit, this is a must.
  
• More use of the holo communications for turning in quests
  

I'm sure there are more, but I'm tired and can'r really recall them.

Had my first bad groups in SW ToR on Hoth today. Two juggernauts - one dps the other tank bitching at each other over loot and then rage quitting. Zerat was the juggernaut who ragequit. Cursed be his name. Only got the heroics before I'm done on Hoth and tanks in short supply.

[Ferrum Aeternum]

Improved Galactic Trade Network user menus. As someone wanting to sell large amounts of crafted shit, this is a must.

Gods yes. Takes forever to buy or sell even one item, and there's really no excuse for that.

[Galactus]

I seem to remember them doing a poll and getting an overwhelmingly negative response.

[Relic]

I seem to remember them doing a poll and getting an overwhelmingly negative response.

That's cuz the Galactic Market blows horribly. I imagine they will change it (copy Wow's AH) asap.

[Cuellar]

Yeah, AH is probably the worst set up part of the game. It's like they've never played a MMORPG since Everquest. Also, the prices to post seem pretty expensive, especially since the game just started out. They should have a sliding scale with a 50% discount right now and pop it up 10% per month as people level and credits flood the market.

Anyway, I'm only L25, and for leveling purposes, I think not having a LFG system is better. I'm sure it is more annoying at L50, but even in WoW, it never was taht huge of a problem. It's only with the introduction of dailies and 30 minute dungeons where you want to grind for ph4t l3wts where the LFG system speeds up your grind. Before 50, the game shouldn't be that much of a grind (and in fact it shouldn't be post-50 as well). Some type of summoning feature is definitely needed. For quests it takes for fucking ever for newbies to come over to the spot, and pre-25, the fuckers have to walk which makes it even worse.

As for class distribution, I'm obviously pretty low, but there are a LOT of DPS. Usually a few healers, and only a handful of tanks. It's pretty much eactly like WoW, and even at my level you really don't NEED that one class, although it is mighty helpful to have a healer and/or tank that is half decent. Also, I've noticed peopel tend to spec pretty haphazardly, and when they hit L50, it'll become a lot more cookie cutter. There are a fuckton of asstards and sorctards running around though (I'm the latter), and every asstard I've grouped with is a fucking retard pretty much.

I did finally run some PvP, and it seemed pretty fun now that I have my class abilities. As a healer, I noticed (mostly L50s) actually protecting me and I was able to follow them around.

I also picked up a Razor Naga mouse, which has 12 buttons on the side, and it actually works pretty well. I'd highly recommend it to anyone playing MMORPGs who has a tough time pushing all their skills (especially in a game like SWTOR where you have a fuckton of abilities).

[Arakasi]

I do have some extra buttons on my mouse (not 12 though!) but because I do like to see cooldowns on abilities it really sucks to put things on the side bars. Since there is no power auras in this game and no cooldown timers I need to keep things somewhat centralized. I was fine doing that with WOW when I had cooldown timers to look at so the ability on the bar wasn't the only visual cue I could go off of.