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LadyoftheNorth72

Now I am really curious about the whole Frey pie thing.

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I have always had the impression that the Frey Pie thing was a really gross practical joke. My post from another thread:

On the pie thing ... As amused as we all are at the idea, keep in mind that we absolutely do not know that there was anything in those pies but standard ingredients. Yes, the whole Rat Cook thing is suggestive, but it is not evidence of anything other than a crafty man entertaining himself. If he had served the pies and not partaken himself, I would be far more convinced that they contained minced Frey. But as he ate large portions of each himself, I am going to go out on a limb here and say that it was more along the lines of a sadistic practical joke. Westerosi are *generally* not known for cannibalism, even ones who eat rather indiscriminately. Rhaegar, Jared and Symond may turn up healthy and hale, or may have met with the BWB, or may have been killed by Manderley and disposed of in some much less taboo manner.

What do you think? Would Manderley have happily stooped to cannibalism himself just for revenge, or was it all just a rather tasteless (heh) joke he played on the Freys and Boltons to make them wonder?

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Clearly, the answer is

This answer is so well thought out and eloquent, it must be the correct one :bowdown: :cool4:

In all seriousness, it could be Manderly setting up the Boltons and Freys, to mess with their minds at a later time. "Ha Ha, I served you your kin!"

Or he could just think it a fitting revenge for the things done at the Red Wedding to his family/friends.

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I'm going to say the Frey pies are real. Three missing Freys, three huge pies full of "pork"- pig flesh is extremely close to human flesh. I'm not surprised that Wyman ate the pies as well. Not just because it would have been suspicious if the fattest man in Westeros suddenly wasn't hungry for his own pies, but because I think he genuinely enjoyed eating them. After all he had to endure, having the murderers of his son sit with him, dine with him, laugh with him while planning to fuck his daughters...I think he reveled every bite.

Plus, there's the strange look in his eyes that Davos saw when he said his son(the only hostage his enemies had) was finally returned...the Rat Cook comment is just icing on the Frey cake.

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What do you think? Would Manderley have happily stooped to cannibalism himself just for revenge, or was it all just a rather tasteless (heh) joke he played on the Freys and Boltons to make them wonder?

Its not much of a joke if its a fake-out where the victims aren't even aware of the faked part. None of them show any hints of wondering. So if it isn't real, why is he so satisfied with his own little in-jokes?

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:agree:

The thing Roose seemed worried about was poison, he waited to take a bite from any of the dishes until he saw Manderly eating it first. So if the pies actually were pork I think Manderlys behaviour and his gloating (as it seemed) were out of place. But we can't be sure, and we may never learn the truth of it perhaps.

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If I remember correctly, GRRM confirmed in a conversation with fans that the cakes indeed were stuffed with Freys.

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I say he actually cooked them. Like someone else said, it's only a joke if the other person is at least sort of in on it or suspects something. Roose was worried about being poisoned and the Frey party seemed mostly oblivious. Manderly pulled one over on them, and if the price he had to pay was eating some of the pie, then, well ...

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Yep, I read it as actual Frey pies. In this story there are numerous mentionings of using human flesh to inflict a message (Hoat/Goat, the Rat Cook), eating it to survive and/or for religious reasons (Skaggs, Ice River Clans), making people disappear by being eaten (the singer Bronn took care of when carrying out Tyrions orders).

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I really hate the idea of one of my fave characters being a closet cannibal, however much he has suffered, so maybe I am grasping at straws by thinking it is all a joke. I agree with the posts above explaining why it does not make sense as just a joke, but I am probably going to be an ostrich on this one anyway lol.

Then again, his proclivities never bothered me when I adored Hannibal all the way through three films, so ...

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Well, Manderly was only returning the favor. His son had been fed human flesh in captivity first. I think that fact may have given Lord Manderly the inspiration for the pies.

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If I remember correctly, GRRM confirmed in a conversation with fans that the cakes indeed were stuffed with Freys.

I think we need to a reference to that, but the content of the books is enough to reach that conclusion, and Manderly is awsome anyways, i would sit with him to eat some frey pies any day!

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I think Manderly meant to have the Three Freys killed, no doubt as an act of revenge for the Red Wedding, and for his son Wendel as he was slain at the Red Wedding! Plus I don;t think Wyman Manderly cared about eating some of the pie, so long as he got one (or in this case three) over the Freys and Boltons!

If it was a dark joke though, it sure as hell made me laugh! :D

Revenge tastes sweet on a dish best served!

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Well, Manderly was only returning the favor. His son had been fed human flesh in captivity first. I think that fact may have given Lord Manderly the inspiration for the pies.

Wow, and I had TOTALLY forgotten that. Excellent point. Word of that little "joke" on his son may very well have reached him - I really hope the son himself does not know - and given him the whole idea.

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Unless GRRM is playing a practical joke on us, there indeed were Freys in those pies.

Also, does eating human flesh once for revenge, and out of necessity to insure that the subject of your revenge partake as well, make one a closet cannibal? I mean it's not as if Manderley feasts on Jon Doe Sunday roast every week. It was a one time thing, called for by extreme circumstances, and actually very funny.

I'll give him a pass.

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In the North Cannibalism is not such an issue as in other places, the old gods prohibit some general things, such as slavery, kin-slaying, and incest, but cannibalism does not make that list. In the story of the rat cook the eating of human flesh is an issue because the A. he was an andal and follower of the seven, who do forbid cannibalism and B. The human flesh was the kings own son

Beyond that there is some reason to suspect the children of the forest and the old gods practice and encourage (respectively) cannibalism, with the whole Bran and the blood sap theory

Also Lord Manderly is a beast... i like to think he ate those Frey pies and savored the hell out of his fallen foes, if he's actually dead i'll probably have to punch a kitten or something.

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Once again, while reading ADWD i completely missed out on the 3 F's being the 3 pies thing.Damn i never ever notice theae subtleties in the book! Anyway i do agree with the OP who like me was sceptical at first,then horrified...and now kinda accepting.I mean,wat other explaination is there for the 3 missing freys?

Too bad i always liked rhaegar...

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