Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Once again, while reading ADWD i completely missed out on the 3 F's being the 3 pies thing.Damn i never ever notice theae subtleties in the book! Anyway i do agree with the OP who like me was sceptical at first,then horrified...and now kinda accepting.I mean,wat other explaination is there for the 3 missing freys?You must've read the OP a different way than I did. I thought she was susgesting that she is still sceptical? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Revan Baratheon Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 You must've read the OP a different way than I did. I thought she was susgesting that she is still sceptical?Still sceptical but more accepting of it now i think,i just read OP not inbetween comments so dunno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Still sceptical but more accepting of it now i think,i just read OP not inbetween comments so dunnoMaybe the OP will enlighten us :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mountain That Rides Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This conversation is making me Hungry! MMMM Freys Drools! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev yn Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 In the story of the rat cook the eating of human flesh is an issue because the A. he was an andal and follower of the seven, who do forbid cannibalism and B. The human flesh was the kings own sonAre we reading the same books? Bran, at least, was quite clear that it was C. the cannibalism didn't matter, the problem was the violation of Sacred Hospitality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Damian Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I have always had the impression that the Frey Pie thing was a really gross practical joke. My post from another thread:What do you think? Would Manderley have happily stooped to cannibalism himself just for revenge, or was it all just a rather tasteless (heh) joke he played on the Freys and Boltons to make them wonder?It is really due to the fact that anyone in Westeros who violates guest rights is considered less than human that it is considered justice. The Red Wedding is/was the most shocking event in the people of Westeros's minds in the entire series. Rebellions come and go, some succeed but this event was a complete break of ANY civilized human interaction norm. Only less than humans but animals would do such a thing as the Freys did to the Starks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted December 28, 2011 Author Share Posted December 28, 2011 Maybe the OP will enlighten us :PYeah, I am getting my head around it a little more now. I also completely missed it in the book (I have a bad habit of ignoring song lyrics) and was kind of horrified at the idea at first, wanted to believe it was all a gag. But, like I said, it never stopped me from loving or rooting for Dr Lecter, so why hate Manderley for it lol.I do pray it is a one- off in this case and not something he makes a practice of in future, if one of the court musicians annoys him ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser-Arthur-Dayne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 I do pray it is a one- off in this case and not something he makes a practice of in future, if one of the court musicians annoys him ...Well, now that he has the taste :uhoh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Oncoming Storm Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 If Shakespeare could do it, so can GRRM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneThousandEyesAndOne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Are we reading the same books? Bran, at least, was quite clear that it was C. the cannibalism didn't matter, the problem was the violation of Sacred Hospitality.That's what the problem for the rat cook himself, for the king who ate his son the cannibalism was an issue because of points A and B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
littlespider Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 This thread is making me hungry!Tricking your enemy into eating the flesh of their kin as a means of revenge is a classical motif that Shakespeare co-opts, though I am sure there are lots of other places it appears. But the instances I know of also feature a big reveal -- Atreus brings out the cooked hands and feet of Thyestes children after Thyestes has already eaten their flesh, and Procne brings the severed head of her and Tereus' son to Tereus after he has eaten the dish. So, will the reveal happen eventually?LadyoftheNorth, I love your phrase "closet cannibal." Hilarious!But, I am also curious because many readers consider Manderly a "badass" for doing this, in part because of the sheer savagery and audacity of it. But, clearly, if this was an act committed by someone on the Frey/Bolton/Lannister side, then would it be considered wicked, as in the feeding of Goat/Hoat to Wylis when he was in captivity?Someone the other day made a good point about why the pie cannibalism is satisfying: finally, FINALLY, the Starks have someone on their side who has the amoral, cunning, savage characteristics that so many of the Lannister allies have. There's something deeply satisfying about this.Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random person in the North Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Maybe he just bought one of those Fray Bentos tinned pies from the local co-op and everyone in the book is in on the joke? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nev yn Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 That's what the problem for the rat cook himself, for the king who ate his son the cannibalism was an issue because of points A and B.What problem was there for the king? No punishment was meted to him by gods or men for his cannibalism in the story. His problem in the story was that he killed the rat cook's son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erinne Posted December 28, 2011 Share Posted December 28, 2011 Tricking your enemy into eating the flesh of their kin as a means of revenge is a classical motif that Shakespeare co-opts, But, I am also curious because many readers consider Manderly a "badass" for doing this, in part because of the sheer savagery and audacity of it. But, clearly, if this was an act committed by someone on the Frey/Bolton/Lannister side, then would it be considered wicked, as in the feeding of Goat/Hoat to Wylis when he was in captivity? :dunno: I don't see why something can't be wicked and badass at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ran Posted December 29, 2011 Share Posted December 29, 2011 I do not believe George has directly said to fans that the Freys were in the pies.However, Anne Groell his editor, did. For a sort of poll/contest, she provided a list of ways people were killed in the novel, and "baked into pies" was one of the options. The only pies of note are the three huge pies.Manderly got his revenge. Think of the Rat Cook story (which he himself calls for). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyoftheNorth72 Posted December 29, 2011 Author Share Posted December 29, 2011 Does anyone else find it utterly impossible to pronounce their name any way other than "fry," simply because it rhymes perfectly with "pie?":) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat King Robert Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I have always had the impression that the Frey Pie thing was a really gross practical joke. My post from another thread:What do you think? Would Manderley have happily stooped to cannibalism himself just for revenge, or was it all just a rather tasteless (heh) joke he played on the Freys and Boltons to make them wonder?Revenge I say, a justified one as well. I got to say I love how the Freys didn't loose that much in the war of the five kings, but now they are getting murdered everywhere. Anyone knows what the Manderly words are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arland Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The point is that for a joke to be effective it must not nessecerely be truthfull - it is enough to be good enough fake. As of now Manderly didn't tell anyone about the content of pies, so if it is true it is "insider" joke and seems to be too costly for it. The real fun should be to tell later to Freys that they have eaten their kin, to see them suffer the recognition. And that can be made even if it is not so. Just hinting to them about it so they will remember the song and will make their own math and have been tortured by a doubt..should be very fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
corbon Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 The point is that for a joke to be effective it must not nessecerely be truthfull - it is enough to be good enough fake. As of now Manderly didn't tell anyone about the content of pies, so if it is true it is "insider" joke and seems to be too costly for it. The real fun should be to tell later to Freys that they have eaten their kin, to see them suffer the recognition. And that can be made even if it is not so. Just hinting to them about it so they will remember the song and will make their own math and have been tortured by a doubt..should be very fun.Alternatively you can play a joke on someone and never let them know. You just get to laugh at them all the time and they still don;t have a clue, which is even funnier.But it has to be real for this.Revenge I say, a justified one as well. I got to say I love how the Freys didn't loose that much in the war of the five kings, but now they are getting murdered everywhere. Anyone knows what the Manderly words are?Remember, the Frey allies fed Wyllis Manderly human flesh ('goat') during his captivity in Harrenhal.Though I'm not sure if he knows that or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falrinn Posted January 25, 2012 Share Posted January 25, 2012 Revenge I say, a justified one as well. I got to say I love how the Freys didn't loose that much in the war of the five kings, but now they are getting murdered everywhere. Anyone knows what the Manderly words are?Apparently House Manderly's words are completely unknown, at least as far as the wiki and The Citadel is concerned.I'm guessing whatever they are, they'll be oddly appropriate for the moment when Lord Manderly makes his move against the Boltons and Freys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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