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[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I


Ran

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One question, how will Stannis winning and getting his support from Iron Bank complicate situation with Robb's will?

Before this chapter I was sure Jon was close to becoming King of the North and Stannis being stabbed to back by Northmen. Now...I'm not so sure.

But there is still the matter of the heart tree burned at Storm End, no matter what North will not like that. However, I like the idea about Stannis converting again.

I'm wondering if there will even be time for Stannis to convert again, or if he'll just have to live with (or die with) the choices he's already made. He isn't winning a ton of friends among the Northmen. His whole spiel about how Karstark's men couldn't have known about their lord's betrayal because men always tell secrets seems like a pretty good hint that Stannis's men might easily have let slip Stannis's habit of burning weirwoods, and there's no way the Northmen will stand by and let the guy who burned the godswood of Storm's End take control of Winterfell.

I think there's also an excellent chance Stannis will end up killing Manderly in "retribution" for Davos, either before Manderly gets a chance to explain what really happened or simply because Stannis doesn't believe Manderly's story. Making a firm enemy where he should have a constant friend is kind of Stannis's specialty. And if the Northmen have questions about "Arya's" identity, as Crowfood certainly did, they're certainly not sharing those concerns with Stannis. Stannis says the Flints, Norreys, and all the rest want Theon killed for the murders of "Bran" and "Rickon"---yet there's a decent chance the Liddles know Bran's still alive, so why on earth haven't they mentioned this to Stannis? He is totally in the dark about things that, if the Northmen were firmly on his side, he should not be in the dark about at all.

On one level, things do seem to be looking up for Stannis. He probably has an excellent plan to defeat the Boltons, his enemies are in disarray, he's just gotten a much-needed revenue stream. This seems like the moment where the tide will turn. But do you know what this whole situation reminds me of? The lead up to the Red Wedding, where Robb had just outlined a brilliant plan to retake the North, he was making plans to join back up with Jon, his political disaster was being smoothed over, "now let's just get through this wedding and everything will turn around". And then the hammer fell, and you realized that it was all much too late. Well, maybe Stannis is about to find out that his own mistakes have gone too far to be corrected.

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I haven't read the whole thread yet (19 pages :o), but maybe he will be attacked while he's on the islet with Asha and Theon and he won't have time to kill Theon because he'll want to go back to fight, by the time he comes back he'll have seen that his whole army's defeated and he sort of has to run. Just brainstorming here..

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Jeyne will be gone, off to the Wall, by the time Mance may reach Stannis (if he is still alive).

Brashcandy; for Sansa, not reclaiming her old identity would hardly be a problem as her present identity keeps her out of harm's way (and away from most potential suitors as well, which is a plus for her at this point).

Agreed :)

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On one level, things do seem to be looking up for Stannis. He probably has an excellent plan to defeat the Boltons, his enemies are in disarray, he's just gotten a much-needed revenue stream. This seems like the moment where the tide will turn. But do you know what this whole situation reminds me of? The lead up to the Red Wedding, where Robb had just outlined a brilliant plan to retake the North, he was making plans to join back up with Jon, his political disaster was being smoothed over, "now let's just get through this wedding and everything will turn around". And then the hammer fell, and you realized that it was all much too late. Well, maybe Stannis is about to find out that his own mistakes have gone too far to be corrected.

It reminds me of that too, but it would suck if Martin did it twice.

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Loved this. What a great Christmas present!

I'm liking Stannis more and more. Thought this was a great chapter for him. I fear for Manderly, however. Yes, I would love to see him turn on the Freys while Stannis is watching, but I doubt that will cut it. I'm not sure what he could do short of producing Davos, alive and well, to prove himself to Stannis. Otherwise, I don't see Stannis trusting him any further than he can throw him, which, it goes without saying, is an exceedingly short distance. Stannis will likely come up with some way to make him prove his loyalty. I just hope Lord Wyman lives long enough to see Roose and/or Ramsay get their arses handed to them, although Bolton pie does not at all sound appealing. I'd rather eat Frey.

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On one level, things do seem to be looking up for Stannis. He probably has an excellent plan to defeat the Boltons, his enemies are in disarray, he's just gotten a much-needed revenue stream. This seems like the moment where the tide will turn. But do you know what this whole situation reminds me of? The lead up to the Red Wedding, where Robb had just outlined a brilliant plan to retake the North, he was making plans to join back up with Jon, his political disaster was being smoothed over, "now let's just get through this wedding and everything will turn around". And then the hammer fell, and you realized that it was all much too late. Well, maybe Stannis is about to find out that his own mistakes have gone too far to be corrected.

I think this could very well happen. I think Stannis is going to be the one to die when he goes to execute Theon at the weirwood, but I know this a pretty unpopular theory. Anyways, I don't think Asha is actively planning an escape but she probably knows that getting Theon to the tree is the best way to keep him alive.

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Both Theon and Stannis were a revelation in this chapter. I can't believe I'm going to type this, but Stannis actually managed to impress me here. He had a bit of a swagger and a confidence that for the first time was not completely overwhelmed by his sanctimonious posturing. And the depiction of Theon was quite realistic too. Still terrified of Ramsay (and rightly so), but also slowly showing signs of recovery: sense of humour, will to survive etc, pride etc. We even got a throwaway reference to Sansa and lemoncakes! Yay! My Sansa appetite has been sated temporarily (ok, not really, but I'm not going to dwell on the negative).

I'm most excited for what will happen with Jeyne Poole now. Are we going to see a clash of the Aryas in Braavos? Will Massey leave her at the Wall?

Going to be a different sneak chapter at the end of the paperback version so cross your fingers for a Sansa.

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On one level, things do seem to be looking up for Stannis. He probably has an excellent plan to defeat the Boltons, his enemies are in disarray, he's just gotten a much-needed revenue stream. This seems like the moment where the tide will turn. But do you know what this whole situation reminds me of? The lead up to the Red Wedding, where Robb had just outlined a brilliant plan to retake the North, he was making plans to join back up with Jon, his political disaster was being smoothed over, "now let's just get through this wedding and everything will turn around". And then the hammer fell, and you realized that it was all much too late. Well, maybe Stannis is about to find out that his own mistakes have gone too far to be corrected.

Heh, true. If Stannis was an awesome good-guy character or a Stark, I'd be terrified for him right now. Since he's an asshole, morally grayish character I think he'll come through it alright. I'm still betting he's the "Blue-eyed king" that Dany has to face, so I think he'll make till then.

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Would be cool if Bran gets some extra powers if blood spills on the Weirwood - maybe Asha tries a rescue and someone gets wounded, their blood trickles onto the Weirwood and this creates a connection required to Allow Bran / BR to warg this person?

Oh wow, Bran warging Theon... The sweetest revenge ever!

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We should keep in mind that Stannis's death was already revealed back in ADwD, mirroring Davos's death in AFfC. So it's very unlikely that we will see Stannis's death in that battle when the novel even delivers us the prelude to this battle... Theon's and Asha's story could have taken up after Stannis's was defeated by Roose's forces.

So I guess it's pretty likely now that Stannis is not going to die in that battle. He might still end up dead, but not at the very beginning of TWoW. If GRRM wanted to close the chapter Stannis, it could and would have been closed at the end of ADwD. Anything else would make little sense...

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For those who don't recall, the last action we saw from Winterfell at the end of ADwD (well, before Ramsay's "Pink Letter" to the Wall) was that Bolton was sending out the Manderlys and Freys to finally come to grips with Stannis, as the Freys had drawn swords against Manderly and they were at one another's throats. It appears that they ended up running into Mors Crowfood's forces, which had been creating a great deal of noise to provoke the attack. Now we learn that the Freys rode right into a trap tat Mors had prepared, Ser Aenys Frey is dead, and it was apparently a debacle.

Interestingly, at least at this point Crowfood is still not in direct contact with Stannis, and is apparently keeping station somewhere near Winterfell. Did the Manderlys never go through to attacking when the Freys fell into the trap? But now it looks like a new effort's being prepared -- Freys and Manderlys, and Ramsay Bolton behind....

The Freys left through the main gate. The Manderlys were supposed to leave through the East gate. It's not clear if they went out at the same time or if the Freys went first. It's also not clear whether there were pits on all the exits or just the main one.

If the latter, then bad luck Freys for Roose giving them the main gate. If the former, I wonder if it's just luck that the Freys fell into the trap and not the Manderlys, or whether this hints at Manderly having some knowledge of the trap through communication with the folks outside.

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It is now less likely that Stannis will die, albeit still possible. Bolton made a huge strategic blunder by leaving the 80-ft high walls of Winterfell.

GRRM mentions that Winterfell was overcrowded and troops were growing restless. That's hardly a reasonable excuse for trudging out into a blinding snowstorm with the high risk of being ambushed.

If Stannis was going to die, GRRM could have simply starved him. Obviously he is trying to shake things up a bit here. Setting the stage for more possible outcomes is a way for GRRM to constantly keep the reader guessing. It's a strategy that works and sells lots of books for him.

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Excellent chapter!! What a great Christmas present from Mr Martin:) It was a joy to see Stannis in action. Thank you SO much!

I found two things nicely surprising. Stannis, who isn't smoozy or complimentary by nature at ALL , gives the North two compliments. He says to Karstark "Confess, and you shall have the same swift end that the Young Wolf gave Lord Rickard. Lie, and you will burn. Choose." And then he says ," They did not need to know. They are Karhold men. When the moment came they would have obeyed their lords, as they had done all their lives." Both of those lines pleased me.

Someone was wondering if this was a misprint:

"Lord Ramsay," Theon hissed. "The son, not the father. You must not let him take him. "

I think it's printed as George wanted it. Poor Theon:( He KNOWS his name now and it's NOT Reek.

And I'm firmly in the Mors Umber is the "Hooded Man of Winterfell" camp! He knew Theon instantly and Asha didn't know him till she heard his voice. He used the exact same words the HM did! I hope Mors survived what came through the gate!

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I haven't read much of a discussion of how Arya factors into this chapter but it definitely places several important pieces into the framework of her story. She might very well assume the identity of fake Arya posing as the real Arya -- now wouldn't that be a trip?!?!

She'd meet Jeyne in Braavos, kill her, and take her face. Then she'd travel as Jeyne-Arya back to the Wall, where she'd meet Theon and he'd say...

Oh hai, you have to remember your name... What's your name again?

Then she'd show her true face, stick him with the pointy end, and say:

Arya Stark of Winterfell.

:wub:

This chapter is too stimulating for my imagination!

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I got a question I'm on page 4 at the moment of this thread, about the lake(s) I see none on any of my maps except the cartoonist one with the heraldry on it showing heated pools around Winterfell I don't think they're talking about Long Lake are there lakes in the wolfwood ?

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This chapter was Stannis in all of his greatness... I for one am a Stannis fanboy and really hope that Stannis comes out wining this coming battle... I think that white harbor will turn to Stannis's side as soon as the battle begins... The pink letter is the only thing that keeps bugging me but still this chapter gave me the feeling that Stannis knows what's he's doing I'd like to know how he's going to fortify his position? The bastard would be on him before he would be able to put up a snow wall... I read in a earlier post that he might use the two surrounding lakes around the villiage I think he would use that to his advantage and force the Bolton army to push foward in between the two lakes, then I think Stannis will light the passage on fire forcing the Bolton army to move back or to go through the frozen lakes covered in snow splitting the army into and hopefully cuasing the ice to break... Hopefully

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She'd meet Jeyne in Braavos, kill her, and take her face. Then she'd travel as Jeyne-Arya back to the Wall, where she'd meet Theon and he'd say...

Oh hai, you have to remember your name... What's your name again?

Then she'd show her true face, stick him with the pointy end, and say:

Arya Stark of Winterfell.

:wub:

This chapter is too stimulating for my imagination!

Why would Arya kill poor Jeyne she never wanted to be "Arya".

I think Arya will come back with Justin Massey the guy who is sent to get The Golden Company's help. Because The Golden Company is already in Westeros helping Aegon, he will get the help of The Faceless Men, Arya will join them to go to the Wall and kickass

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Why would Arya kill poor Jeyne she never wanted to be "Arya".

I think Arya will come back with Justin Massey the guy who is sent to get The Golden Company's help. Because The Golden Company is already in Westeros helping Aegon, he will get the help of The Faceless Men, Arya will join them to go to the Wall and kickass

Yeah I know, she is poor, but I'm pretty doubtful that after all this charade Jeyne would simply be allowed to live happily ever after. And I certainly can't see Arya going all "explain yourself" after learning that Jon died because of him breaking his vows because of Jeyne-Arya (if she does learn this).

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