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Ran

[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I

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This was wonderful! Thank you Mr. Martin!

Massey going to Braavos was an interesting twist on events...

And Theons comment on Tycho Nestori was interesting indeed, what did he learn about him in this short time I wonder? He is not än average banker that one.

I was also glad to get some info on ravenry, that has bothered me a lot. But the logistics... I think the issue of that will never be examined further. Training the birds to go a specific route seems like it would take a lot of effort and transportation back and forth. Ah well.

I like how fast the weirwoods came into play, I feared that would take longer for some reason. And that if it is Bran talking through the ravens, which it probably is since he can recognize Theon, he is getting good at communicating through the birds. Also it seems that warging is not prevented by the Wall, something that has been suggested in threads here.

This was exiting! My insomnia payed me well this night :)

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Perhaps he means to use the snowfall to his advantage somehow, like Crowfood Umber?

That would just be awesome, King Stannis building himself a snowcastle, perhaps even defeating his attackers with snowballs?

I honestly have no idea why Stannis still is so confident, but somehow it makes me hope. Damn you George, I bet that's just what you wanted :)

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What a lovely surprise! Asha's reaction to Theon and Theon's feelings about Asha's reactions were heartbreaking. I hope tWoW provides lots of Asha and Theon interactions.

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Stannis may impress me yet.

I'll take the idea of the letter being a fake sent by Stannis - the accuracy of the details will actually make sense if Theon is providing coaching on Ramsey's style.

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Anyway, I was rather impressed with Stannis here. His douchiness was amusing/frustrating as always, the way he dealt with Karstark was just badass, and I find his confidence quite compelling.

Yes. I agree. I'm not a Stannis fan by any means. usually, every time someone mentioned the possibility of Stannis as King, I cringed, but in this chapter I found him extremely compelling (that's exactly the right word). He has a natural gravitas in here that I never perceived about him before. In his earlier chapters I always found him a deeply insecure man who uses an impossibly rigid sense of justice, and the bid for the Iron Throne, to compensate for them. Suddenly, here, I see him as confident, strong, able, and secure in his abilities. It really is a beautifully written chapter.

I wonder what he meant when he said he didn't have walls/high ground/natural defenses "yet?" Perhaps he means to use the snowfall to his advantage somehow, like Crowfood Umber?

I've been thinking about the "yet" since I read the chapter, and the only thing I could come up with was the snow. That they were going to build, or are building, something out of it. Still haven't settled on what,

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Massey going to Braavos was an interesting twist on events...

It is, isn't it?! I'm betting on him financing Tyrion and Dany's trip home to Westeros.

ETA:

It just occurred to me that if Massey does end up being Dany's ticket home, then my theory of Dany's first stops in Westeros being Eastwatch and the Wall could be true. :D

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Well, this was and is really terrific. I don't care if Jon stays dead or is revived, but Stannis, well, I got virtually sick when I read that stupid Pink Letter. Especially since Asha's last chapter may have indicated, that Stannis somewhat lost his way and his determination, which in turn might this an actual possibility. He shut himself up in that tower and apparently did nothing. But now, well, his star has not yet set. If Stannis truly were to die in that battle, the whole story in the North would be crumbling.

The whole alliance with the Iron Bank - and Massey's mission - strongly indicates for me, that the Braavosi (and possible even real Arya and the Faceless Men) will enter the war for the Iron Throne on Stannis's side - against the dragons. Tycho indicated something like that to Jon, when he got angry about his dragon jape, and I don't think the Braavosi will suffer dragonriders in King's Landing again... And the prophecy of the Undying also indicates that the finals dance will be fought between the cloth dragon, the blue-eyed king with no shadow, and Daenerys.

But little will come of that, if Stannis were to die this early. Virtually nobody is going to fight for Shireen, and everyone knows.

And the prophecy of the Undying also indicates that the final dance will be fought between the cloth dragon, the blue-eyed king with no shadow, and Daenerys.

Also, we should keep in mind that Melisandre will decide if the Pink Letter could be believed. At least for Selyse and the Queen's men. If Massey arrives at Castle Black, he will not dare forsake his mission if Melisandre declares that she has seen that Stannis is alive. So my guess is, he will really travel to Braavos. But I doubt that he would come back if it turned out that Stannis was truly dead. So for this whole Free City engage themselves in Westerosi warfare storyline (Dany might take Volantene slave soldiers with her; and expect that Illyrio Mopatis is not going to travel alone and undefended to Westeros).

As for the Pink Letter itself: Ramsay is Roose's man for writing threats. He wrote the letter to Deepwood, and another letter to Wall. We can't believe anything but what we know did happen. And I never believed the stuff about Stannis having Lightbringer. No one at the Wall would have the opportunity to verify that tidbit, but Ramsay obviously believed it would lend the whole thing more credibility. And the whole thing about seven days of battle always sounded like a fairy tale. It makes no sense whatsoever to believe that the Bolton forces could keep on fighting for seven continuous days and emerge victorious over Stannis of all people. Ramsay has never fought a single battle in his life. And I do not count his backstabbing of Ser Rodrik a battle. He cannot win this, not if his main forces will be made of Freys, northmen of dubious loyalty, and Manderlys, who will stab him in the back.

As to Stannis's strategy: I assume it will somehow include the two lakes. Maybe he will build indeed snow forts, but on the lake. If he can lure the riders on the lake, the battle will be all but won. At least if the ice was prepared to crush beneath the horses... I'm quite confident that Ramsay is going be surprised when he finally arrives at the King's Tower.

Theon's fate, well, the interesting question is when is he going to tell the truth about Bran and Rickon. That might save him, since it will Stannis enable to unite the North behind a son of Eddard Stark - given that they find one. And Manderly arrives soon after and reveals what he has brokered with Davos, things will not go well for the Boltons.

As to the weirwood execution scene:

The interesting thing here is: Does Bran want to save Theon? We don't know what he intended to do when he contacted Theon back at Winterfell. But if so, how is he going to accomplish this? Will there be some kind wonder happening, that will stay Stannis's hand? And by the way, executing Theon with his own hand, might be an interesting sight. Stannis may become a true North man, after all.

We should also keep in mind that Bran might be able to influence the coming battle as well.

Anyway, the fact that both Asha and Theon are not going anywhere by order of the king, I don't see any chance for them to get away if Stannis's force were utterly defeated. Even if Bran were somewhere to shield them, they would not very far. But I'm quite convinced that TWoW will show us the death of Ramsay Snow - at Theon Greyjoy's hand. His lingering obsession with Ramsay's name strongly foreshadows that. At least to me...

And Stannis is really portrayed beautifully here. We finally see how he treats his men, and he really is not a nice guy. But no one is better fitted than he is to cleanse the Realm of all this scum.

The Bittersteel tidbit was not surprising to me. It was always quite obvious that he was the driving force between the Blackfyre rebellions (all but War of the Ninepenny Kings, I guess).

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The Bittersteel tidbit isn't a surprise. It's just another reminder about how the Golden Company once wanted to really put a Blackfyre on the throne. Which, as you know, many think they just happen to be trying to be doing now without necessarily being aware of it. I liked the irony.

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Stannis needs the northmen, and I don't think he's completely bought into Mel's stuff...well, not yet, anyway. When he goes to hack off Theon's head, hot damn, we should get Bran's first full conversation through a heart tree. Question is: will anyone buy what the weirwood, and probably the ravens, are selling?

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Well, this was and is really terrific. I don't care if Jon stays dead or is revived, but Stannis, well, I got virtually sick when I read that stupid Pink Letter. Especially since Asha's last chapter may have indicated, that Stannis somewhat lost his way and his determination, which in turn might this an actual possibility. He shut himself up in that tower and apparently did nothing. But now, well, his star has not yet set. If Stannis truly were to die in that battle, the whole story in the North would be crumbling. The whole alliance with the Iron Bank - and Massey's mission - strongly indicates for me, that the Braavosi (and possible even real Arya and the Faceless Men) will enter the war for the Iron Throne on Stannis's side - against the dragons.

On second thought, I like your theory better than mine.

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One of the first things Stannis does in ACoK is bitch about Ned, who was actually trying to give him the Iron Throne. Now he is wary of Lord Manderly, who is actually preparing to join up with him. The man might be a great tactician, but he cannot recognize an ally even if he is 300 pounds and coming for him as fast as humanly possible.

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Its going to be hard for Manderly to come to stanis's side. How will he convince him that davos is still alive? I never thought of how stanis would fill about him faking his death.

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Its going to be hard for Manderly to come to stanis's side. How will he convince him that davos is still alive? I never thought of how stanis would fill about him faking his death.

I kind of think Manderly went to Winterfell to die. That is what he is expecting to happen, at either the hands of Stannis or the hands of the Boltons.

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Any chapter that opens with Theon Greyjoy waking up to the dulcet sounds of Stannis Baratheon bitching about money is a fantastic chapter in my eyes.

Way too many people are getting sent to Braavos for Arya to remain there too much longer. Although, if Tycho's three ships are still at Hardhome, along with all the ships at Eastwatch, how will Massey or Tycho get across the Narrow Sea at all?

Who wants to bet that Theon does end up getting killed at that weirwood, and that Theon's death is what allows Jon to be resurrected (as only death can pay for life)?

So is this confirmation that Euron's hidden eye is black? ("Under it [Crowfood] wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice.")

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One of the first things Stannis does in ACoK is bitch about Ned, who was actually trying to give him the Iron Throne. Now he is wary of Lord Manderly, who is actually preparing to join up with him. The man might be a great tactician, but he cannot recognize an ally even if he is 300 pounds and coming for him as fast as humanly possible.

Davos is Stannis' best friend and Manderly had (supposedly) killed him. You better fucking believe Stannis is pissed.

Oh, also. New favorite line:

"Ser Stupid, Lord Too-Fat, the Bastard, let them come. We hold the ground, and that I mean to turn to our advantage."

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So is this confirmation that Euron's hidden eye is black? ("Under it [Crowfood] wore a stained white leather eye patch that reminded Theon of his uncle Euron. He'd wanted to rip it off Umber's face, to make certain that underneath was only an empty socket, not a black eye shining with malice.")

That makes me wonder if he was on the receiving end of some sort of Fire Magic. Compare it to Victarion's blackened arm.

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Both Theon and Stannis were a revelation in this chapter. I can't believe I'm going to type this, but Stannis actually managed to impress me here. He had a bit of a swagger and a confidence that for the first time was not completely overwhelmed by his sanctimonious posturing. And the depiction of Theon was quite realistic too. Still terrified of Ramsay (and rightly so), but also slowly showing signs of recovery: sense of humour, will to survive etc, pride etc. We even got a throwaway reference to Sansa and lemoncakes! Yay! My Sansa appetite has been sated temporarily (ok, not really, but I'm not going to dwell on the negative).

I'm most excited for what will happen with Jeyne Poole now. Are we going to see a clash of the Aryas in Braavos? Will Massey leave her at the Wall?

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'We hold the ground, and I mean to take that to our advantage.'

Well, it's rather obvious: Stannis means to lure them on the lakes. He holds the ground, they will drown. No idea how he intends to do that, but I guess he'll find a way...

Damn it, Stannis deserves a real victory over some real evil foe.

As for Manderly, he will have to turn his cloak rather soon. And deliver some Frey heads as well, to cool Stannis's mood. And he should also be able to prove his deal with Manderly somehow. I guess he is not stupid enough to present himself to Stannis with empty hands and nothing but words.

But I guess Bran is going to reveal himself somehow at the weirwood tree. Either that, or he will cause Theon to confess the truth about anything to anyone (including the truth about Jeyne), and in the end confirm it somehow. Only this will stay Stannis hand, and it might also be enough to prevent the northmen from demanding his death.

And Bran does also know about Davos, his mission, and Manderly's true loyalty. It was no coincidence that we read about Davos passing the ancient, fat weirwood tree of White Harbor, when Glover delivered him to Manderly.

So Stannis might be know about Rickon already when Manderly arrives...

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Davos is Stannis' best friend and Manderly had (supposedly) killed him. You better fucking believe Stannis is pissed.

Oh, sure. And he would have no reason to guess Ned was actually supporting his claim. But it's still interesting how, time and again, wittingly or not, purposefully or not, Stannis makes enemies when he could have made friends and needlessly undermines his political maneuvering. Robb Stark could have been an ally. The letter about the twincest could have skipped the part about the Lord of Light. He could have given a little more freedom to the Seven-worshippers among his knights. As Donal Noye said, the man is iron, he will break before he bends.

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