[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I'm not sure I believe that Asha's being warged. Possible, perhaps, but decidedly unlikely (she's a bit more "with it" than Hodor, surely, and even Hodor put up resistance at first). It could be that Asha just knows Ned's reputation or the reputation of northmen in general, or perhaps she had some side communication with a weirwood. ETA: Or it's Bloodraven warging her and not Bran.

As someone else said, Davos walks by an old weirwood with Glover when he goes to see Manderly; proof that he's alive. So I think the emphasis on getting Theon to the weirwood isn't so much about executing him as it is about getting to a place where tree!Bran can explain some things.

I don't think Theon knew about Abel = Mance during the Winterfell escape, if he wrote the letter, he must have learned that Abel = Mance after he had left Winterfell. There is nothing in his POV that he knew who Mance was when they rescued Arya, and no hints that the two of them had a secret letter writing plan.

If you would please read what I wrote, I offer up the possibility that the letter was written AFTER Stannis had already taken Winterfell (and Theon could have had access to the wax and to Mance), not BEFORE.

[fassreiter]

It's indeed strange that we have never seen Ned execute someone in front of a tree, right? But we know that Bran had a vision of something like it in the past through the tree in Winterfell.

[brashcandy]

Intriguing. Especially the description of Asha's delivery of the line: "The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains".

ETA: If someone is speaking through her, I'd rather it be Bloodraven than Bran.

Yeah, I think it would more likely be Bloodraven, due to the chill that is created. The end of the chapter had a very hypnotic quality to it, and those words simply don't sound as if they would come from Asha. Plus the bit about the "sorcerous sword" sounds like a challenge, not simply a request, and it was a little mocking as well.

[LuisDantas]

I can easily see Stannis turning on Jon if he intercepted that letter. At the very least he will not renew the offer of Winterfell to Jon. He has this weird viewpoint that he is the rightful King of Westeros, and he refused to ally with Robb when Robb declared himself king.

Maybe you are right. But from a pragmatical viewpoint, conceding that his late brother would also make that same proposal is hardly a concession at all. If he can get Jon to do as he wants with Robb's posthumous blessing, where is the loss?

[Myrddin]

After not reading any of the ADWD preview chapters for years, I read this one immediately. All it did for me was tell me that the editing decisions on ADWD were probably mistakes.

QFT

Too bad they won't release all the withheld Dance chapters online, the ones that would actually give Dance a proper ending.

I enjoyed this chapter more than I thought I would. It definitely should've been in the last volume.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

QFT

Too bad they won't release all the withheld Dance chapters online, the ones that would actually give Dance a proper ending.

I enjoyed this chapter more than I thought I would. It definitely should've been in the last volume.

Yes, I would have much rather had this chapter than some of the others (*cough* Meereen *cough*). Oh well. If the book is half as good as this, it'll be worth the wait.

[brashcandy]

I'm not sure I believe that Asha's being warged. Possible, perhaps, but decidedly unlikely (she's a bit more "with it" than Hodor, surely, and even Hodor put up resistance at first). It could be that Asha just knows Ned's reputation or the reputation of northmen in general, or perhaps she had some side communication with a weirwood. ETA: Or it's Bloodraven warging her and not Bran.

I think it's BR, but would it need to be full on warging though? I have no idea how it works, but perhaps someone as advanced as BR has powers where he could simply speak through a character without warging them in the traditional sense? Maybe BR does want the sacrifice to go down, but Bran could stage an intervention??

Yes, I would have much rather had this chapter than some of the others (*cough* Meereen *cough*). Oh well. If the book is half as good as this, it'll be worth the wait.

Don't start ;)

[mor2]

@LuisDantas, Damn you are brave, going into the spoiler lands of Winds of Winter, without reading aDwD yet! I myself Ignore those parts, I rather experience it all together, when it comes, you known the smell of a new book and all...

[fassreiter]

If you would be please read what I wrote, I offer up the possibility that the letter was written AFTER Stannis had already taken Winterfell (and Theon could have had access to the wax and to Mance), not BEFORE.

Sorry, I was too late reading your post while writing mine. Yes, that is entirely possible. Although it would be difficult to keep Stannis from contacting Jon once he had access to the ravens in Winterfell, thus giving away the lie in the letter that he is dead. If Stannis took Winterfell, it's almost impossible to keep up that lie for more than a few days. But maybe it would be enough for getting some hostages/kids/witches. Don't know if it would be a good idea to piss off a victorious Stannis with an army and a castle, but who knows what GRRM is up to.

[Chise]

for the love of puppies, would everyone stop using "warging" as verb for "possessed"?!?!? Wargs only applies to wolves, dammit!!

Also, Theon just lost some of his "hero" points so hardly earned in his last appearance... Landing on the poor girl and breaking her ribs ... tsk tsk.

Hey, anyone built a conspiracy theory yet out of fact all the periods are followed by a double-space?

EDIT: sorry for my random and pointless comment. Brain still in full "flailing excitedly" mode and can't put out fully thought-out ...thoughts yet

[Night's Scotch]

Bran is just awesome, and I knew he was present when the ravens said Theon. But wait I though people couldn't skinchange between the Wall. As in you cannot skinchange with a creature as long as it is on the other side of the wall.

if that were the case, I don't think he'd be able to see through the weirwoods on the south side of the Wall

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

for the love of puppies, would everyone stop using "warging" as verb for "possessed"?!?!? Wargs only applies to wolves, dammit!!

Also, Theon just lost some of his "hero" points so hardly earned in his last appearance... Landing on the poor girl and breaking her ribs ... tsk tsk.

Hey, anyone built a conspiracy theory yet out of fact all the periods are followed by a double-space?

EDIT: sorry for my random and pointless comment. Brain still in full "flailing excitedly" mode and can't put out fully thought-out ...thoughts yet

I'm fully aware that "warging" is specific to wolves. But I'm guilty of using it as a generic verb, too, because it's easier to write and people automatically know what it means. So ... sorry. :P

Sorry, I was too late reading your post while writing mine. Yes, that is entirely possible. Although it would be difficult to keep Stannis from contacting Jon once he had access to the ravens in Winterfell, thus giving away the lie in the letter that he is dead. If Stannis took Winterfell, it's almost impossible to keep up that lie for more than a few days. But maybe it would be enough for getting some hostages/kids/witches. Don't know if it would be a good idea to piss off a victorious Stannis with an army and a castle, but who knows what GRRM is up to.

A few days is really all it would take, just so Theon got his raven off first. When Jon gets there (hypothetically at this point), Theon can feign ignorance, everyone assumes Ramsay wrote it as a bluff (which is also a likely, maybe even the likeliest, real possibility) and no one has to know it was Theon's doing.

[The Oncoming Storm]

I will use it all the kinds of mindfucking. But all these "Asha is warged" and "conspirators were warged" bs gets on my nerves. You don't just warg a healthy, strong-willed person.

[Night's Scotch]

I'm not sure I believe that Asha's being warged. Possible, perhaps, but decidedly unlikely (she's a bit more "with it" than Hodor, surely, and even Hodor put up resistance at first). It could be that Asha just knows Ned's reputation or the reputation of northmen in general, or perhaps she had some side communication with a weirwood. ETA: Or it's Bloodraven warging her and not Bran.

As someone else said, Davos walks by an old weirwood with Glover when he goes to see Manderly; proof that he's alive. So I think the emphasis on getting Theon to the weirwood isn't so much about executing him as it is about getting to a place where tree!Bran can explain some things.

I don't think she's being possessed either, she's way too headstrong for that. It would be like the woman Varamyr attempted to jump into that clawed her eyes out. I don't know if she's hoping for a chance at escape, or it's just her fear of burning.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

I will use it all the kinds of mindfucking. But all these "Asha is warged" and "conspirators were warged" bs gets on my nerves. You don't just warg a healthy, strong-willed person.

Your first sentence made my head explode.

And I don't think so either. But it's easier to believe that Bloodraven could possess Asha than Bran, although I think the explanation there is more straightforward (i.e. Asha's been communicating with a weirwood or something).

[Chalky]

"Never call him that!" Spittle sprayed from Theon's lips. "Ramsay Bolton, not Ramsay Snow, never Snow, never, you have to remember his name, or he will hurt you."

"He is welcome to try. Whatever name he goes by."

Oh please say he tries :]

"Your vows are stronger than your bladder, it would seem."

I've missed Stannis

[Sun]

Sorry, I was too late reading your post while writing mine. Yes, that is entirely possible. Although it would be difficult to keep Stannis from contacting Jon once he had access to the ravens in Winterfell, thus giving away the lie in the letter that he is dead. If Stannis took Winterfell, it's almost impossible to keep up that lie for more than a few days. But maybe it would be enough for getting some hostages/kids/witches. Don't know if it would be a good idea to piss off a victorious Stannis with an army and a castle, but who knows what GRRM is up to.

Yes, that is one hole in the theory. Another would be timing. Wouldn't Theon be risking Jon and his host on their way down to Winterfeell crossing paths with Arya and the Banker on their way up to the Wall? From the map I can only see one road heading to the Wall, a road that both parties would be forced to use.

I still think the Theon theory is plausible, we just need someone to come up with a way to plug the holes.

[Chise]

And I don't think so either. But it's easier to believe that Bloodraven could possess Asha than Bran, although I think the explanation there is more straightforward (i.e. Asha's been communicating with a weirwood or something).

This just brings up so many more questions!! Why would hard-core ironborn Asha go anywhere near weirwoods or engage in communication with them!?!

what I'm personally dying to know - what is Stannis's plan!? Is he gonna set a giant perimeter fire to hold their grounds when Boltons/Freys/whoever comes!? How else can that snowed-in crap village be turned to his advantage?

PS: still remaining in the camp of "bastard-Bolton wrote that letter in aDwD" Theon may be a lot of things (and clearly becoming more of 'em), but even a letter like that is beneath him

[Roughspun]

I wonder why Bran (or Bran + Bloodraven, there were two ravens remember) want Theon executed (I have no doubt that Bran isn't planning to save him, this isn't a fairy tale).

How do you even know what Bran wants to say? “Theon” “the tree” is not very expressive. If I remember correctly, in aDwD’s last Jon chapter, Bran via the Old Bear’s greedy raven says “Jon Snow” “king” – does this automatically parse as “I want Jon Snow to be executed by the king”?

Furthermore, how do you people expect Bran to talk through the weirwood? As in, physically? Weirwoods are not Ents …

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Yes, that is one hole in the theory. Another would be timing. Wouldn't Theon be risking Jon and his host on their way down to Winterfeell crossing paths with Arya and the Banker on their way up to the Wall? From the map I can only see one road heading to the Wall, a road that both parties would be forced to use.

I still think the Theon theory is plausible, we just need someone to come up with a way to plug the holes.

I think the road is probably the biggest chink in the theory — they'd almost have to cross paths. I don't know though, I still kind of like it. :P I just think it'd be funny if everyone had spent months trying to decide if Ramsay's letter was true or false, or if Mance wrote it, when in reality it was someone else entirely, for another reason entirely.