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[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I


Ran

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Yes, I think they would have taken the time to look at her, considering that, as far as they knew, she's the only surviving child of their liege lord, the one they were fighting to save from Ramsay, and the heir to Winterfell.

I dunno... I'm starting to get this feeling that everyone is pretending all the farces going around are to be taken at face value... There was a memo that went around that said: "ok, guys! This is serious! If anyone does a body check: fireg0d is the true one, Theon Greyjoy is valuable to have, Arya of Winterfell cis legit, NightsWatch is a useful fort to hold" and so on

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I Read the Theon chapter last night. It was a great read. But now I want to read more of TWoW :(

I'm fairly convinced Stannis is going to fake his own death, or maybe just send a raven to Winterfell saying that he's been killed. Stannis seemed convinced when he was talking to Ser Justin that people were going to think he was dead

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Thanks for trying but it still doesn't want to work for me, keeps telling me "This account has been suspended".....it's too cruel and I need to read it!!

The link works for me ... but sadly that's no help for you. Maybe x million AGOT readers and watchers are online and the site went gaga?

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I will use it all the kinds of mindfucking. But all these "Asha is warged" and "conspirators were warged" bs gets on my nerves. You don't just warg a healthy, strong-willed person.

Agreed. If it were so easy, Bran could just as easily "warg" into Tommen and rule the Kingdoms, pulling whatever strings he'd like. When you start allowing Bran to jump into random people at will, you create a pretty big deus ex machina. I think Asha has her own agenda with this.

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I haven't read the whole thread because it is a bumpin' one but here are my thoughts anyway:

Dare I say this chapter may have been more interesting than anything in ADwD? Like others have mentioned the pace and the impending action seem to suggest that TWoW will be a book much more akin to ASoS than to AFfC or ADwD.

Martin has this amazing ability to make me love characters I used to hate: two great examples Theon and Stannis. I was so happy to see Theon start this chapter as Theon not as Reek. He is coming back to himself, although I do not think he will ever be back to himself entirely as he does seem to be mad still. And seeing Stannis squash the Karstarks was just epic. Stannis is proving to be a great leader, and definitely the best for Westeros out of all the claimants. It'll make it that much sadder when Dany kills him.

However, I also think this chapter confused me more when it comes to the Pink Letter. It is clear now why Ramsey was the one to write the letter but what actually happened? I like the idea that Stannis plans to hold "the ground" while luring the Bolton forces out onto the ice, but assuming Ramsey really wrote the letter and he believes Stannis is dead then something really confusing had to have happened. Especially if he doesn't have "Reek." I'm hoping that Stannis and Manderly defeat the Freys before the Boltons ever reach the battle and the Manderlys are able to convince Ramsey that Stannis is dead.

Also, being the big fan I am of Bran, I absolutely loved seeing him interfering once again in Theon's story. I'm not sure why he wants them to bring Theon to the Weirwood, but I do not think it is to execute him. Bran has something else planned, and I love it.

This chapter has certainly whetted my appetite, it is just too sad that we will have to wait a while for the rest of the book. At least we have the other sample chapter to look forward to with the paperback edition of ADwD.

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One thing that has compelled me about the developments in ADwD is this separation between Stannis and Melisandre. It's going to be interesting to see if this hints at the eventual breaking of Stannis and his allegiance to the Red God -- especially if Stan chooses to accept Asha's challenge to spurn the Red God in favor of the Old ones. It almost seemed as if a "divorce" may have happened in the last book with Mel's apparently new interest in Jon Snow. Maybe TWoW will showcase an all new, all different Stannis -- someone with a completely new outlook. In the past, it seemed he would always make his decisions with Mel's counsel, but now he seems to be making a lot of big moves without Mel around to influence him. When Stannis and Mel next meet, I'm wondering if they're still going to be on the same side. Stannis is swimming in Northmen right now.

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Agreed. If it were so easy, Bran could just as easily "warg" into Tommen and rule the Kingdoms, pulling whatever strings he'd like. When you start allowing Bran to jump into random people at will, you create a pretty big deus ex machina. I think Asha has her own agenda with this.

I don't think Bran warged into Asha, but the Ravens started saying "Tree" and "Theon" before Asha entered the room. So while Asha probably wasn't warged it does seem like Bran was able to influence Asha's actions somehow.

Whether or not Bran can warg into healthy individuals, his manipulation of events certainly is an example of deus ex machina. Almost literally when people believe it to be the Old Gods.

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My two cents:

Ramsay wrote the pink letter after the Freys have been trapped and crushed by Stannis on the iced lakes. Stannis sends back some Manderleys with his sword (Asha gave him the idea for it). This fits with the seven days - 3 each way and ond day fighting - in the pink letter. They also must have told Ramsay that Stannis sent Theon to the wall.

I am afraid the Mance part of the pink letter is true and the heads could be the ones of Mors Umber. It makes sense for Ramsay to put their heads plus those of the infiltrators on the wall to show Jon there isn't any support left inside of Winterfell.

Ramsay cannot have written the letter after defeating Stannis because then he would have Theon back.

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ok, brain functioned for 5 seconds to realize this: Theon is more broken than ever. This whole "know your name" business is clearly more fucked up than it was in aDwD

Then it sounded like "oh hai thar my old self still buried in this Reek-body" ... now it clearly sounds like "answer to the name that's most to your advantage right now!": as in convince Jeyne of responding to Arya, and then anytime bastard-Bolton is called as such he corrects them 'cause it'll end in sooo much paaaaaaain otherwise

...... Theon is in for another glorious 'turncloak' moment somewhere between the series is out. I can just feel it

I don't think it's choosing whatever name is to his best interest, I think it shows a descent into madness and a contrast with the Theon we meet in AGOT. He's no longer the brash, careless young lord's son we meet in the first book. His spirit has been completely crushed and broken. Even hanging on the wall in Stannis' tower, he's still more afraid of what Ramsay might do to him than he is of anything Stannis could do, including taking his head or burning him as a sacrifice. I can see him going one of 2 ways. Either he'll reclaim enough of his old self to kill Ramsay himself (possibly at an inopportune moment....if Stannis captures him and plans to trade him, for example) or his fear will make him help Ramsay in some way...stabbing someone, freeing him, etc....something like a twisted version of Stockholm Syndrome.

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I'm starting to gather that it's more than likely that Stannis, in conjunction with Manderly, will end up destroying half the Bolton forces in the very near future. He has already done away with the Karstark betrayal. The Freys will probably fall victim to the Maderly forces and/or Stannis and his frozen lake trap. Which leaves Ramsay Bolton somewhat at the mercy of Stannis as well. Indeed, Stannis might very well be able to lead Ramsay into an ambush using the fact that the Boltons are not aware that Stannis has uncovered the Karstark ruse. Or, as many have suggested, trick Ramsay into thinking Stannis has been defeated via Maderly and the sword.

Which brings me back to wondering what Roose Bolton will end up doing . . .

Is it possible he heads south to the Twins and abandons Ramsay to his fate? Thus, the letter to Jon comes from a desperate Ramsay having retreated back to Winterfell with whatever remains of his army, his father having evacuated beforehand?

I just think Roose is too smart to be caught up in this disaster. He's already well aware that things are beginning to fall apart. He's doubly aware of Manderley's shaky loyalty.

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Awesome read!!!! Exciting ... . I think that Stannis is in a trap . Asha will try to kill or wound Stannis to escape with Theon .. . The Ironborn are about survival .. Asha is no one's prisoner she is thinking about killing Stannis and escaping . . she has a trap planned . ..

She wants to get out of dodge, take her brother and go somewhere else . . probably Summer Isles as she refuses go to back to her nuncle's authority in the Iron Islands.

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