[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I

[R'hllor-Is-The-Truth]

That was a great sample

If it was Stannis sent the letter to Jon about his death, then he knew about Mance and the 6 spearwives. May also explain why he asked the maester about the ravens. To stop any news of what he was planning to get out. I get the sense, he will use the Umbers inside Winterfell to help him capture Winterfell. Umbers betrayal of Bolton will need to be kept secret so that nothing happen to Greatjon who is held captive by the Freys

I think Stannis sent the message about his death so he can get Jon and the Watch to help him fight the battle for Winterfell. I really hope Jon accepts the legitimization offered to him by Stannis. And i really hope Robbs letter is him making Jon The King In The North, so all the Northerners will rally behind Jon Stark. And once the battle for Winterfell is over, everybody heads to the Wall because shit is getting real up there

[4rcane]

Maybe it was Theon who sent the fake letter to Jon? Theon had the knowledge that was in the letter, plus the means now - being close to the ravens to send that message

[Arkash]

Manderely engages Stannis, but instead treats with him and tells him of Davos' promise to obtain Rickon. He returns to Winterfell- with Lightbringer- and reports that he has destroyed Stannis' army.

Good point there, who knows?

[4rcane]

Good point there, who knows?

How would Ramsay know all about Jon's plan to rescue Arya. I never imagined Mance would be someone who would break under torture and reveal that information, plus Mance is strong

[Ingvarr Snow]

While we discuss the letters, this passage from the chapter bugs me:

"Just now, the turncloak is more use to me alive. He has knowledge we may need. Bring in this maester." The king plucked a parchment off the table and squinted over it. A letter, Theon knew. Its broken seal was black wax, hard and shiny. I know what that says, he thought, giggling.

What was the letter Stannis had on the table? Why Theon thinks: "I know what that says".

[hurga]

I think the Mance part is what can be really key to solve the puzzle if this is really a fake letter:

People who know about Mance by name:

1.) Mance himself + the spearwives

2.) some other wildlings (I guess Val for example), but I am quiet sure not all of them just to keep it a secret

3.) Possibly anybody at winterfell wo captured Mance/spearwives and tortured them

4.) Jon Snow

5.) Melissandre

People I am quiet sure who do not know about Mance:

Theon, Asha (Mance is Abel for them), Stannis

[gmavridis]

I read it last night after I saw the announcement GRRM did in his blog. It was an unexpected Christmas present and I'm thankful for it.

[Lord Reek]

This may be a dumb question, but what exactly did Stannis aks the maester that betrayed his intentions?

[Arkash]

And Theons comment on Tycho Nestori was interesting indeed, what did he learn about him in this short time I wonder? He is not än average banker that one.

For me, that was one of the weirdest part of the sample, those comments about Tycho...

[FanTasy]

What was the letter Stannis had on the table? Why Theon thinks: "I know what that says".

Exactly! I have to re-read this gift chapter but I took it as a letter from the Wall.

[hurga]

Yeah, totally forgot about the banking business.

The contract signed with blood had a very faustian vibe.

Also, in this world King's blood can be used for rather "interesting" things.

[mike_s_6]

Exactly! I have to re-read this gift chapter but I took it as a letter from the Wall.

I was feeling dumb a while ago when I read about the letter with the black seal, thinking, "Argh, this must be a letter from someone that I don't remember!" because Theon says that he knows. It's like we're also supposed to share the secret with Theon, like the way he mutters other things he knows that the readers also know and Stannis doesn't. Black seal sounds like it's from the Watch, right? Did Jon send something?

I'm a bit glad that Theon is a bit back. The humor especially. Stannis is awesome in this chapter, he has always been my king ;)

[Arkash]

Then he had to say who Abel was, and talk about the washerwomen who weren't truly washerwomen.

Theon knows about Mance! ;)

[Capon Breath]

This is Awesome!

Great Xmas Pressie from GRRM and thanks Ran for posting.

Great to see some Umber Badassery outside Winterfell

Stannis is UBERBADASS with some great lines "He is welcome to try" & "You are dead men, understand that" & "Your understanding is not required. Only your obedience" & "Your vows are stronger than your bladder, it would seem" Shit Yeah he's suddenly turned all Guy Ritchie on us with some genius one liners.

Brilliant to see the Karstark betrayers get nailed.

So asides from sheer excitement is there anything Juicy in the present or is it just a stocking filler?

Mors Umbers interupts Theon to refer to him as ...." — a turncloak and a kinslayer", Aren't these the same words used by the Hooded Man at Winterfell? Does this put Mors Umber in the frame?

Like other posters I'm sensing some kind of Lake related trap for the Bolton forces - Maybe a false road can be cleared to a false camp leading the Bolton forces off the real road from Winterfell onto the lake where either sheer weight or a well place hurled flaming rock can do the trick? Stannis seems pretty sure of himself.

Im guessing Asha is just trying to create a better chance to rescue her brother that a bonfire in the middle of the camp? A few people off on an Island has to be better odds.

Interesting to see Theon stress the Ghosts in Winterfell and again count the number of missing swords. The long dead Kings of Winter must surely be about to play a part.

Would be cool if Bran gets some extra powers if blood spills on the Weirwood - maybe Asha tries a rescue and someone gets wounded, their blood trickles onto the Weirwood and this creates a connection required to Allow Bran / BR to warg this person?

Need to re-read - too excited to think any more !

[mike_s_6]

Did anyone else laugh when they read that Theon fell over Jeyne and broke her ribs? I don't know but in my head, it was this cartoonish sequence and it had me laughing for a while. When they fell, the snow broke Jeyne's fall, and then she broke Theon's... Poor Jeyne.

Prince (of Winterfell) Charming Rescue

[David C. Hunter]

This is Awesome!

Great Xmas Pressie from GRRM and thanks Ran for posting.

Great to see some Umber Badassery outside Winterfell

Stannis is UBERBADASS with some great lines "He is welcome to try" & "You are dead men, understand that" & "Your understanding is not required. Only your obedience" & "Your vows are stronger than your bladder, it would seem" Shit Yeah he's suddenly turned all Guy Ritchie on us with some genius one liners.

Brilliant to see the Karstark betrayers get nailed.

So asides from sheer excitement is there anything Juicy in the present or is it just a stocking filler?

Mors Umbers interupts Theon to refer to him as ...." — a turncloak and a kinslayer", Aren't these the same words used by the Hooded Man at Winterfell? Does this put Mors Umber in the frame?

Like other posters I'm sensing some kind of Lake related trap for the Bolton forces - Maybe a false road can be cleared to a false camp leading the Bolton forces off the real road from Winterfell onto the lake where either sheer weight or a well place hurled flaming rock can do the trick? Stannis seems pretty sure of himself.

Im guessing Asha is just trying to create a better chance to rescue her brother that a bonfire in the middle of the camp? A few people off on an Island has to be better odds.

Interesting to see Theon stress the Ghosts in Winterfell and again count the number of missing swords. The long dead Kings of Winter must surely be about to play a part.

Would be cool if Bran gets some extra powers if blood spills on the Weirwood - maybe Asha tries a rescue and someone gets wounded, their blood trickles onto the Weirwood and this creates a connection required to Allow Bran / BR to warg this person?

Need to re-read - too excited to think any more !

Asha somehow escaping with Theon is ridiculous because they are literary in the middle of nowhere and they donot have a clue where they are at. Theon knows, but the fact that they have no horses and Theon is barely able to walk(Asha is also injured) means that the krakens arent going anywhere. Even if they take just a small number to the island, the greyjoys wont be escaping unless the Boltons end up jumping Stannis at the tree. In which case Theon would go back to being Reek. So I dont forsee an escape. Stannis needs Asha and Theon to make Pyke bend the knee(Which they wont).

Maybe the sellswords from braavos will help Massey and the greyjoy siblings retake pyke, but not now. White Harbour and its huge fleet will probably be the ones to finish off the Crows Eye.

The only sellswords I can see helping out Massey and Stannis(besides the facelessmen or other braavosi sellswords) are the Second Sons. Mainly because they are the only ones not fighting or dying. Maybe Dany will come back with them. Though thinking of Dany in the winter is hilarious. One week in the north and she would be praying to go back to Pentos or the red door or wherever the hell shes from. If Arya Stark somehow gets left behind after Massey leaves back for Eastwatch it would be a huge surprise. She seriously needs to get back to a place of relevancy and can we at least have two stark siblings reuniting before the year 2020? :cheers:

I think that for whatever reason Stannis is becoming more.....'attached' to the north.

Umbers ftw!

Manderlys turnclocking in the field, during battle is not going to happen, because it will lead to utter chaos and confusion. No one will know who is the enemy and who is the ally, espcially not Stannis' men. They are also traveling separately. I somewhat see it playing out as one of these.

.1) Either by the time Stannis sees an approaching army it will be the manderlys with the heads of freys

.2) the Manderlys will leave the Freys to their demise as Im sure that the Kings men can handle a few freys. Meanwhile the manderlys will meet up with Stannis afterwards.

.3) Manderlys ambush and take care of the freys themselves.

Idk, as long as Stannis wins I'll be fine

[David C. Hunter]

BTW, crackpot theory. Tyrion is a part of the Second Sons right now. Massey will be looking for sellsword companies, any chance they go over to the North? They seem destined to help Dany, but any chance Tyrion convinces her to help the north and the starks?

[Frey Pie]

While we discuss the letters, this passage from the chapter bugs me:

What was the letter Stannis had on the table? Why Theon thinks: "I know what that says".

Could it not be that Stannis intercepted the letter Robb sent home declaring Jon his heir?

[TheEvilKing]

Could it not be that Stannis intercepted the letter Robb sent home declaring Jon his heir?

Interesting thought. Was Theon at the meeting where he announced it to his banner lords?

[EdricBaratheon]

Very interesting read! Martin yet again leaves us with far more questions to ponder on, and more theories to discuss!

The letter on the one hand could have been Robb's declaring the territories for The Northern Boarder if he was granted independance by the Iron Throne! Yet it could have be Arnolf sending Bolton a map with the assumed location of Stannis's foothold in the North (Doubt that thought since Bolton knew they were coming from Deepwood Motte).