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Der Anarch

Grumpkins and Snarks

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Will we get any detail on them in The World of Ice and Fire?

Just wondering, are they just folklore (like Tatzelwurms and Trolls were in medieval Europe) or are they something real, like the Others or the Childern of the Forest who have since 'disappeared from the world.' Who are they and why does the Night Watch protect us from them?

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Snarks of course are in reference to fictional creatures created by Lewis Carroll the author of "Alice in Wonderland."

I've heard of Grumkins in something else . . I can't remember. Martin does a lot of literary tributes in his work and some of his own sarcasm to those vices in other works as well.

Martin is a genius IMO.

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As with most legends, there's probably a grain of truth at the center of them. Many of the less-outlandish beings beyond the Wall have turned out to be somewhat true: the Wildlings do exist and practice strange/obscene habits, giants exist, but are merely very large and intelligent primates. Animals behave like human beings while possessed by wargs. The Children of the Forest are so far removed from time that anyone who caught a glimpse of them would probably not even recognize them, and make up something else. Even the Others and their wight walkers have turned out to be real, but don't seem quite as all-powerful as everyone seems to think they are.

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Snarks of course are in reference to fictional creatures created by Lewis Carroll the author of "Alice in Wonderland."

I've heard of Grumkins in something else . . I can't remember. Martin does a lot of literary tributes in his work and some of his own sarcasm to those vices in other works as well.

Martin is a genius IMO.

Snarks - Alice , that I got.

For the grumkins I had to google. I stumbled upon grumpkins, which has several meanings and connotations.

One of them is that a grumpkin is a Halloween pumpkin grown into or cut into a head that looks grumpy.

It could be a reference to the faces that are cut into trees.

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On one level they are names with which to frighten children, drawn as suggested above from Lewis Carroll and others, at a different level I'd suspect that their origin in Martin's world is the slang used by the Andal crusaders as they slaughtered the Old Races and sent them fleeing above the Wall - like Gooks in more modern parlance.

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There is another thought, given GRRM's fondness for multi-layered meanings. While Snarks most obviously come originally from Lewis Carroll, it only requires the substitution of one letter to turn them into Starks.

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What I really want to know about are the squishers. Those guys seem the most dangerous of them all.

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it would be really amusing to see Tyrion come across a grumkin and/or a snark and think, "could it be possible that the Others are real too?" :cool4:

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I think they're just part of folklore. There's just something about the name you can';t take seriously. Imagine if theyre were an alien attack of Earth and the UN said " Our planet is under bombardment from a regiment of Grumpkins, while the Snark empire is considering annexation of Europe". :P I don't think anyone could hear that and keep a straight face.

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Won't we be surprised when it is revealed that "grumpkin" is the Old Tongue word for "giant ice spider".

I would then be impressed and frightened at the same time, seeing a grumpkin.

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Grumpkins and snarks are the 'ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night' of Scottish Folklore.

I am sure every culture has its own version to scare the kids to sleep.

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Grumpkins and snarks are the 'ghoulies and ghosties and long-leggedy beasties and things that go bump in the night' of Scottish Folklore.

I am sure every culture has its own version to scare the kids to sleep.

See above. They are just words like the Bogeyman. The thing is, there are unexplainable (yet) creatures in this epic. As Varys tells Tyrion, you believe in what you have seen. Apparently there are things that exist that Tyrion has not seen - like the Wights, the Others, giants, etc.

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Wasn't it mentioned in the books that Snarks and Grumpkins actually refer to the Others and Wights? These are terms used by people south of the wall to belittle the dangers North of the Wall.

Maybe I'm wrong, I thought I read that.

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Wasn't it mentioned in the books that Snarks and Grumpkins actually refer to the Others and Wights? These are terms used by people south of the wall to belittle the dangers North of the Wall.

Maybe I'm wrong, I thought I read that.

That is pretty much what the wiki has to say about Grumpkins, but it isn't exactly cannon. I think it makes the most sense however.

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Well, iirc, grumpkins are wish-granting little creatures.

I think a lot of people missed the meaning of the question, I think you are closest to answering it so far. The OP wasn't asking if Grumkins and snarks were real, but what were they supposed to be?

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