[TWoW Spoilers] Theon I, Part 3

[alguien]

Oh, and this quote:

I defeated your uncle Victarion and his Iron Fleet off Fair Isle, the first time your father crowned himself. I held Storm's End against the power of the Reach for a year, and took Dragonstone from the Targaryens. I smashed Mance Rayder at the Wall, though he had twenty times my numbers. Tell me, turncloak, what battles has the Bastard of Bolton ever won that I should fear him?

is pure awesome sauce.

[The Knight of ...]

By the way, Satin is most definitely not a wildling.

Yeah, Satin is from Oldtown. Marsh doesn't like him because he's effeminate/a boy whore.

Though I'm pretty sure Marsh didn't like the decision to make Leathers Master-of-Arms either.

[Kaylee]

So what happened to the Umber guys after the Freys fell into those traps? I think they might be the 'false king's friends' whose heads are on the walls of Winterfell. Also I thought the Freys had to return to Winterfell, if only to get new horses? They lost a lot of those, wasn't it said so? But we don't know for sure, because Theon is brought to the banker, is that correct?

Yes.

And it seems that the Freys and the rest should be now just behind Theon and the banker.

By the way, how did Tycho find the way to Stannis' camp?

It's a nice idea that a panicky Ramsay has been able to hide the fact that Arya is missing. It certainly would come close to what Theon experienced when he tried to hold Winterfell. But I wonder what he told the others about the fighting washerwomen on his walls then.

Maybe nothing? The official version is that Abel and his washerwomen came to Winterfell only for the wedding and then Roose closed the castle and they couldn't leave. Now Stannis is coming, and they surely have no reason to die for the Boltons, so it probably isn't surprising that they are trying to get out.

Or maybe Ramsay will say that they were Stannis' spies and blame them for the murders. He needs to blame somebody anyway.

There is actually no clear connection between the fight at the walls and Arya. And people have now a battle to worry about.

ETA:

I don't recall any Jon's decision in ADwD that Bowen liked.

[Wouter]

Yeah, that's the bit I was thinking of. Could be referring to anything though. But it really does seem like Bran has an interest in Theon for some reason. Maybe we'll get to see a bit of CotF resurrection magic. Maybe someone who's blood has fed a heartree can be brought back...?

It likely is referring to Victarion Greyjoy. The description certainly implies a Greyjoys ("eyes smiling sadly" = grey joy), Victarion is suspected to be half dead (but resurrected by Moqorro) and he is coming to Dany on a ship.

[fassreiter]

Yeah, Satin is from Oldtown. Marsh doesn't like him because he's effeminate/a boy whore.

Says a lot about Marsh, doesn't it. As well as his support of Slynt. Also I would still like to know what secret stuff he had to talk about when he accused Rattleshirt-Mance of spying on him. Spying for whom, by the way? Jon, probably, in Marsh's eyes.

[bemused]

Bowen Marsh supported Slynt for LC.

[Wouter]

Bowen Marsh supported Slynt for LC.

Quite likely at least partly because Slynt was known to be the candidate favoured by Tywin - Marsh was probably aware of the need to placata the Iron Throne (and hence much more likely to act against Jon once it seems Stannis had failed).

[sunworshipper]

It likely is referring to Victarion Greyjoy. The description certainly implies a Greyjoys ("eyes smiling sadly" = grey joy), Victarion is suspected to be half dead (but resurrected by Moqorro) and he is coming to Dany on a ship.

I don't believe that Victarion has ever "smiled sadly" in his life.

[Lord Martin]

Wow, amazing chapter. There is so much to comment on.

The Letter:

This seems to be getting the most attention. IMO, there is not enough information in this chapter to confirm Stannis sent it. He cannot know about Mance and the Spearwives just yet. He doesn't know about the Rattleshirt switch. Although, we cannot rule Stannis out. There are several scenarios that could cause him to be the author.

Ramsay seems to be the other favorite. Similar problems, we don't know how/if he finds out about Mance and the Spearwives or any other information in the letter. Though there is some good evidence that supports the assertion that Ramsay sent it.

IMO, the best option for the author of the letter is Mel. I think she sent it to Jon Snow in order to manipulate him. I fall into the camp that thinks there was some magic going on during Jon's stabbing and that Mel was behind it. She needs him alive but out of the picture for some reason.

The final option is Mance himself. He is a tricky one that Mance. I could see him having some master plan to put himself in control of the North after (if) the Wall falls. But that's probably a little crack pot.

Asha and the Crows:

This is the really weird one. I have a hard time thinking she was possessed by Bran or Bloodraven. That would be a first for us. Even Hodor flipped out when Bran tried to posses him. Asha would show some sign of distress if she had been possessed. The Crows on the other hand, I believe were possessed so Bran and BR could see what was going on.

I suspect Asha is just trying to save Theon from burning. Her chapters in ADWD really show how much she hates fire as a means of death. Why not goad Stannis into beheading or hanging Theon.

I also suspect something funky happens there. A magical moment with Bran's voice that is interrupted by battle, the advancing Bolton force or something along those lines. I also suspect Asha and Theon get away in the chaos.

Theon:

For me Theon is Gollum in more ways than one. He's not just a split personality (Gollum/Smeagol and Theon/Reek). But Theon has more choices to make, for ill or good and they will have a significant effect on future events. Ultimately he will die, there's little question about that. But he has a lot more to do going forward.

Lots of cool other subtleties in this chapter, Bittersteel reference, Tycho is very curios, Massey off to Braavos etc... The Winds of Winter is shaping up to be a doozy!!!

[slayer420]

So what happened to the Umber guys after the Freys fell into those traps? I think they might be the 'false king's friends' whose heads are on the walls of Winterfell. Also I thought the Freys had to return to Winterfell, if only to get new horses? They lost a lot of those, wasn't it said so? But we don't know for sure, because Theon is brought to the banker, is that correct?

It's a nice idea that a panicky Ramsay has been able to hide the fact that Arya is missing. It certainly would come close to what Theon experienced when he tried to hold Winterfell. But I wonder what he told the others about the fighting washerwomen on his walls then.

By the way, Satin is most definitely not a wildling.

I dont think the Umbers are dead yet. If you dig traps like that it is to slow you enemy down where they won't chase after you. I think Mors would be doing alot of hit and run tactics. Also I have a filling that there is more reason to the greybeards being inside and the green boys on the outside.? Maybe the older ones are set to sacfice themselfs in some way? To keep the future of the Umber people alive? I am not sure, but I think there is more to it than what me know.

[alguien]

It likely is referring to Victarion Greyjoy. The description certainly implies a Greyjoys ("eyes smiling sadly" = grey joy), Victarion is suspected to be half dead (but resurrected by Moqorro) and he is coming to Dany on a ship.

I don't know. The text reads:

A corpse stood at the prow of a ship, eyes bright on his dead face, gray lips smiling sadly.

Victarion's hand is burnt, but he seemed pretty alive to me. I think his men would have reacted more strongly to a corpse. Also as another poster said, I can't see him "smiling sadly."

If that fits anyone in the Greyjoy family, it was Theon. In fact, smiling is what he was known for.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone else entirely though.

[Lord Martin]

The Umbers are either openly (Mors) or secretly (Hothor) supporting the Starks. They are playing both sides to ensure that the Greatjohn survives his ordeal at the Twins. Hothor is the one ensuring that by "allying" with Bolton.

I almost wonder if Hothor Umber, not Mors is the man in the hood that calls Theon "turncloack and kin-slayer." Mors uses the same term, but has no way to get in or out of Winterfell and has a distinctive eye patch. Hothor has no such defining characteristics, but I bet he and his brother speak similarly and have a similar distain for Theon.

[Lord Martin]

I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone else entirely though.

I always assumed it was Connington. He has greyscale, in fact he contracted it on a ship. But he seems happy to die as long as Aegon takes his "rightful" place as king of Westeros.

[Lady of Long Lake]

I don't know. The text reads:

Victarion's hand is burnt, but he seemed pretty alive to me. I think his men would have reacted more strongly to a corpse. Also as another poster said, I can't see him "smiling sadly."

If that fits anyone in the Greyjoy family, it was Theon. In fact, that's what he was known for.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was someone else entirely though.

I think Euron's lips are dyed blue from something he drinks. I wonder if his lips would still be blueish if he were dead? Perhaps as the blood leaves him and his skin turns pale and ashen, those blue lips might look more greyish than blue.

[Winterfail]

Asha thinks about the brown ink and spiky hand when she receives her letter from Ramsay Bolton containing a piece of prince.

The brown ink flakes away in the letter Jon reads about Moat Cailin falling to the Boltons and the upcoming wedding at Winterfell.

[alguien]

I always assumed it was Connington. He has greyscale, in fact he contracted it on a ship. But he seems happy to die as long as Aegon takes his "rightful" place as king of Westeros.

Actually, that was my other thought on who the sailing corpse could be.

[Peasant Rebel Leader]

Well, need to defend Marsh a bit here. Jon Snow never thinks of explaining why he does what he does. Or he doesn't do it sufficiently. I don't think Marsh is intimated by the Lannisters, as - if the wiki is right - house Marsh lies in the North. So why would he? He's the first Steward on the wall, so he has been in the "elite" of the Night's Watch for quite some time. He's not a nobody!

On the other topics, it seems we are really going in circles and there are really not enough information to base an informed opinion on the letter, f.e. . Although I like the "Ramsay is hiding that he has lost "Arya""-theory. That gives an explanation for the letter.

[Ashen Shugar]

I always had the impression Slynt was looked at as a candidate for LC by Marsh because he assumed he would fit the role perfectly since he was commander of the gold cloaks at KL.

[Ghost714]

Yeah before Satin came to the Wall he was a whore in Oldtown, not a Wildling. And I doubt highly that he was a Wildling who dreamed of moving south of the Wall to become a whore, and then ended up at the Wall.

[Lord Godric]

I always had the impression Slynt was looked at as a candidate for LC by Marsh because he assumed he would fit the role perfectly since he was commander of the gold cloaks at KL.

I doubt that is the case. It may be part of his thinking process, but I would bet money that it was since Tywin made it known that Slynt would get the full support of King's Landing that Marsh supported him.