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jarl the climber

Is The Blackfish gay?

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It's very possible, and a theory that I happen to like. Typically, being a "confirmed bachelor" was less common in the Middle Ages. Usually, a gay (or straight) king or lord would just play along with an arranged marriage, while keeping some more appropriate nookie on the side. Renly's political pairing with Margarery Tyrell is an excellent example of this kind of marriage.

The Blackfish seems more honest and principled than Renly was, and may have rather been disowned than pretend to a marriage he had no intention of consummating or honoring. My money's on gay, principled-celibacy for Brynden Tully.

History is not kind to queer monarchs who neglect their spouses and run around with their actual lovers, either publicly or privately. Best example of this: Edward II of England. In addition to generally being a bad king, he was publicly running around with multiple men and women and favored his knightly boyfriends in court. His own queen and most of Parliament and the court had him deposed, abdicate, and eventually murdered for general incompetence. The most common myth (likely false) of his death has him sodomized to death with a red-hot poker, in cruel jest at his sexuality.

Other kings in his own dynasty got away with far more obvious adultery; they just happened to be popular among court and serfs, or competent enough for their 'transgressions' to be conveniently overlooked (much in the way the Dornish get away with sexual liberty that is quite at odds with the rest of Westerosi custom).

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I did read an interesting theory a while back that argued that the Blackfish was actually in love with his brother's wife, Minisa, and that's why he didn't obey his brother's orders to get married.

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I did read an interesting theory a while back that argued that the Blackfish was actually in love with his brother's wife, Minisa, and that's why he didn't obey his brother's orders to get married.

Thats an interesting theory. We know hes a bachelor but people never make any comments about him like Renly or Loras. On the other hand the whole story about he took the blacfish as his symbol seems to indicate that he sees himself as different and is proud of it.

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I think Proudwing has it. I also believed that the blackfish had an affection for his brothers wife.

the reason i thought that was when he compliments Caitlins looks (or manner i cant quite remember) and compares it affectionately to her mothers.

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I'm going to file this under "if he is, I have even more respect for gay people"

Seriously, I come from a small town in the middle of nowhere in Canada, so whenever someone says something derogatory tward gay people I just think of how EFFING AWESOME Queen was.... Now maybe I can think of the blackfish to.

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I did read an interesting theory a while back that argued that the Blackfish was actually in love with his brother's wife, Minisa, and that's why he didn't obey his brother's orders to get married.

I wouldn't mind if 'Blackfish is gay' theory turned out to be true, but I love this theory the most. It doesn't have the strongest evidence, though, I admit.

I think Proudwing has it. I also believed that the blackfish had an affection for his brothers wife.

the reason i thought that was when he compliments Caitlins looks (or manner i cant quite remember) and compares it affectionately to her mothers.

Once he called me by Mother’s name.”

“He misses her still,” Ser Brynden answered. “You have her face. I can see it in your cheekbones, and your jaw . . .”

“You remember more of her than I do. It has been a long time.”

Was that it? I seem to remember him also saying that Catelyn had eyes like her mother, but I can't find that quote anywhere, so maybe I imagined it.

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Why do you people automatically make links from "not wanting to be married" to "gay".

For me it's just that the Blackfish wants to remain totally free and wild, who tells you he doesnt go to some whores from time to time or had mistresses ?

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Why do you people automatically make links from "not wanting to be married" to "gay".

For me it's just that the Blackfish wants to remain totally free and wild, who tells you he doesnt go to some whores from time to time or had mistresses ?

Exactly, it doesn't tell us he wants to be free, or that he has mistress/whores, or that he had boyfriends, or that he was in love with Minisa. We JUST DON'T KNOW.

No one is saying it's absolutely irrefutable he's of homosexual orientation. We're putting it out there as a possibility. Cool your jets.

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I always assumed he was asexual. I mean he's getting on in years and he's never married or been noted as having a lover or bastard children. And on the other side no one makes any kind of suggestion that he sways towards men as they do with Corbray, Oberyn, Renly and Loras.

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Honestly I always thought he was just too stubborn to agree to an arranged marriage. He's a very independent-minded person, maybe he's against the idea of marrying someone for political reasons if he doesn't love them or even find them attractive, and refuses to compromise about it.

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I think Proudwing has it. I also believed that the blackfish had an affection for his brothers wife.

the reason i thought that was when he compliments Caitlins looks (or manner i cant quite remember) and compares it affectionately to her mothers.

This is a possibility, but there's also a lot of this going on in the story already, with Bonifer Hasty and Barristan Selmy. There are elements of it in Robert's story, along with Ashara Dayne, and possibly Brandon and/or Ned Stark. None of that means it can't also be true for the Blackfish, but I think I'd like it if his story was different or more interesting than that.

We have another character who never married in Galbart Glover. I'd love to get some more insight into both his story and that of the Blackfish before the series is over.

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Honestly I always thought he was just too stubborn to agree to an arranged marriage. He's a very independent-minded person, maybe he's against the idea of marrying someone for political reasons if he doesn't love them or even find them attractive, and refuses to compromise about it.

I agree with this. Hoster was much too bitter about him refusing to marry his choices because he was angry that Brynden refused to further his political ambitions. The Blackfish seem to be too independent and proud to be used for his brother's ambitions.

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I appears that the Blackfish and his brother Lord Hoster had a "chilly" brotherhood. I have always been surprised that he was not invited to join the Kingsguard after the rebellion and certainly after the war of the 9 penny kings when he and Ser Barristan distinguished themselves.

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This is a possibility, but there's also a lot of this going on in the story already, with Bonifer Hasty and Barristan Selmy. There are elements of it in Robert's story, along with Ashara Dayne, and possibly Brandon and/or Ned Stark. None of that means it can't also be true for the Blackfish, but I think I'd like it if his story was different or more interesting than that.

We have another character who never married in Galbart Glover. I'd love to get some more insight into both his story and that of the Blackfish before the series is over.

IIRC there's a SSM update where someone asks GRRM about Galbert and he replied he was a widower.

I think it's pretty telling that Cat thinks he'll never get married, a man who only loves other men has no options. The fact that Hoster tries to force him to give up his lifestyle and "mary' ie turn straight. Lets not forget he could have looked for any maiden in the kingdom for 30+ years and he refused to the point of rebellion.

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I think that Brynden would rather not ever get married at all than have to marry someone who was forced on him. I don't think that necessarily points to him being gay.

And if he is, so goddamn what?

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Exactly, it doesn't tell us he wants to be free, or that he has mistress/whores, or that he had boyfriends, or that he was in love with Minisa. We JUST DON'T KNOW.

No one is saying it's absolutely irrefutable he's of homosexual orientation. We're putting it out there as a possibility. Cool your jets.

I think people wonder if he's gay because of how extremely subtle GRRM is about sexuality of character (ie some readers totally miss the Renly/Loras thing, or that Connington had a thing for Rhaegar).

ETA: I'd have no problem with it either way. I don't really care, actually. The backstory would be nice, though.

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I'll file it under "if he is, cool, if he isn't, cool"

With what little we know about him, it could go either way and I wouldn't be surprised. The fact that he isn't married could be a hint, seeing as how a very large majority of grown men (who haven't taken vows of celibacy) in Westeros are married, but it could just be that he wants to remain free and doesn't really care about having heirs.

He's a great character either way, having him be gay would be a nice counterpoint to the more stereotyped characters like Renly and Loras.

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