Full-Faced Braavosi Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Lady G: i dont really care to argue the knights identity anymore since neither of us will budge. i do have some questions.1. when was it said that lyanna fought the squires?2. what does it matter that she beat up benjen?1. She beat them with a tourney sword when they attacked Howland Reed.2. If she can beat up Benjen (albeit when he is a kid), who ultimately becomes First Ranger, why not three random knights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Grimes Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Then if he's just looking out for his father's bannerman, why the need for "mystery"? Wouldn't he want all his bannermen to actually know that he's looking out for them? Seems kind of underhanded and out of character for Ned IMO. But in the case of Lyanna, the "mystery" would make sense. She's a girl and wouldn't be allowed to enter if her identity was revealed :)If I recall correctly they first offered Howland armor to enter the lists himself. He refused so as not to embarass himself. Sensitive Ned realized that fighting in his stead would only further embarass/shame him, so he fought as a mystery knight. In short: noone wants to be bullied, but even worse to have someone else come to your aid and make a spectacle of it.In conclusion: It could definitely be Lyanna, (and probably is) it makes perfect sense. However if I was a gambling man, i'd place my bet on Ned lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Why would Ned participate in the tourney as a mystery knight clad in ill-fitting armor? What is his motivation to suddenly enter the tournament and defeat only those 3 knights?his would be the same as lyannas: fighting for howland reeds honor It was Lyanna who confronted their squires.it was neds tent where reed prayed. And I'm not sure how old Ned was at the tourney, but I'm pretty sure he was not so young that he would be "short of stature". this i agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Lady G: i dont really care to argue the knights identity anymore since neither of us will budge. i do have some questions.1. when was it said that lyanna fought the squires?"the little crannogman was walking across the field...when he was set upon by three squires. They were none older than fifteen years, yet even so they were bigger than him, all three... They shoved him down every time her tried to rise, and kicked him when he curled up on the ground. But then they heard a roar. 'That's my father's man you're kicking,' howled the she-wolf...The she-wolf laid into the squires with a tourney sword, scattering them all."aSoS, chapter 24 p.334Unless you'd care to argue there was some other she-wolf about, there it is.2. what does it matter that she beat up benjen?only that you said "lyanna was never described as fighting the boys." That was the quote I could find instantly, having just read it. There may be others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleesha Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If I recall correctly they first offered Howland armor to enter the lists himself. He refused so as not to embarass himself. Sensitive Ned realized that fighting in his stead would only further embarass/shame him, so he fought as a mystery knight. In short: noone wants to be bullied, but even worse to have someone else come to your aid and make a spectacle of it.In conclusion: It could definitely be Lyanna, (and probably is) it makes perfect sense. However if I was a gambling man, i'd place my bet on Ned lol.Ok fair enough :) But I personally would bet on Lyanna coz the odds are so heavily in favor of her and it makes much more sense story-wise. Ned doesn't stand a chance :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 1. She beat them with a tourney sword when they attacked Howland Reed. 2. If she can beat up Benjen (albeit when he is a kid), who ultimately becomes First Ranger, why not three random knights. 1. again, scattering them with a sword doesnt mean they fought. who would ever hurt a little stark girl? 2. one is a grown man, the other is a child. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleesha Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 his would be the same as lyannas: fighting for howland reeds honor it was neds tent where reed prayed.this i agree with.So isn't Lyanna a more suitable candidate for tKoLT since she would meet the "short of stature" part and also have a better motivation than Ned, since she confronted the squires and has been described as a bit of a hothead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 So isn't Lyanna a more suitable candidate for tKoLT since she would meet the "short of stature" part and also have a better motivation than Ned, since she confronted the squires and has been described as a bit of a hothead? no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 1. again, scattering them with a sword doesnt mean they fought. who would ever hurt a little stark girl?2. one is a grown man, the other is a child.Pax, Eggs.We must agree to disagree. There's no earthly point in arguing further unless someone digs up some new evidence. Just remember: Lyanna's gender does not disqualify her for anything. You have come dangerously close to suggesting that and we wouldn't want to get into a war of bad-ass chick examples, would we? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budj Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 I think it was Lyanna. It gives perfect back story for why Rhaegar eventually 'kidnapped' her. He was sent to go find the mystery knight and found her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 who would ever hurt a little stark girl?Providing examples of those during the series who have hurt little Stark girls and boys could take a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleesha Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 no.If your reason is that she's a young girl, then well, we're talking about a series which has a 10-year-old girl-assassin. Incidentally said assassin has been described to be a lot like Lyanna :)And if not Lyanna, why Ned? There are hardly any arguments to support that Ned is the KotLT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Pax, Eggs. We must agree to disagree. There's no earthly point in arguing further unless someone digs up some new evidence. Just remember: Lyanna's gender does not disqualify her for anything. You have come dangerously close to suggesting that and we wouldn't want to get into a war of bad-ass chick examples, would we? ;) her gender and age together (but mostly her gender) certainly do disqualify her from this, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Grimes Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 her gender and age together (but mostly her gender) certainly do disqualify her from this, imo.Read the Arianne sample chapter! lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Narea Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Another reason for Lyanna being KotLT is Aerys. Aerys has a dragon dream that KotLT will bring about the ruin of House Targaryen and thus orders Rheagar to find him and bring him to Aerys to charge him with treason. Much like Daeron's dream in The Hedge Knight, Aerys acting on his dream is what brought it about. If Aerys hadn't charged Rheagar with investigating identity of KotLT, Rheagar would not have stepped foot out of his usual social circle and wouldn't have known that any Lyanna Stark existed, much less crowned her QoLaB. And Lyanna apparently did cause the downfall of House Targaryen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Gwynhyfvar Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 her gender and age together (but mostly her gender) certainly do disqualify her from this, imo.So I suppose we'll have to start with Brienne who defeated Ser Humphrey Wagstaff at 16 and Ser Loras Tyrell a couple of years later. And also held her own against Jaime Lannister. Then there's Dacey Mormont who fought in every one of Robb's battles, and Elia Sand "Lady Lance", age 14, known as "the girl jouster." All of the Sand Snakes seem pretty terrifying to me, though Elia is the only one specifically mentioned as a jouster. And Arya Stark, the assassin, age 10. Then we could head North of the Wall and meet a few more terrifying female warriors.So- why on earth would you go there? Age has no bearing except as it relates to her relative size. If you think small stature is the issue, just say so, but look at Loras Tyrell for a perfect example of a small man who is a reknowned jouster. So you're mostly arguing gender and I think GRMM has clearly established that women can be warriors, also that stature does not matter in a joust. Before you argue the whole armor on horseback thing, all of the examples above are armored women except Arya and IMO- just you wait until she's 16 or so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 Providing examples of those during the series who have hurt little Stark girls and boys could take a while. joke reply? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 joke reply?I really can't tell if you are trolling, joking or seriously believing what you are writing.If you are seriously believing what you are writing, I must remind you of a few people: Jaime Lannister, various members of the Kingsguard, Ramsay Snow. These are just a few people who would hurt little Stark boys and girls (or girls playing at being a Stark). The point you tried to make above is pretty ridiculous when you think about things that happened in the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eggs Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 If your reason is that she's a young girl, then well, we're talking about a series which has a 10-year-old girl-assassin. Incidentally said assassin has been described to be a lot like Lyanna :) And if not Lyanna, why Ned? There are hardly any arguments to support that Ned is the KotLT. arya hasnt killed anyone in such a way that a mans strength would be required.I say ned because it was obviously a stark and ben was kid while brandon was already competing.@whoever: they dont even wear plate armor in dorne. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted January 21, 2013 Share Posted January 21, 2013 the knight also had a booming voice. what fool woul think tht a young girl was a man?I think this is one of the best indications for the Lyanna theory, actually.None of the candidates have a 'booming voice', so the KotLT was clearly disguising his voice. The other candidates are all men: even if they were worried about their voice being recognised (which would be unlikely) it would be sufficient to make quite a minor change. Only one needs this sort of pantomime to pass for male.Yea, I DEF do not think that "short of stature" disqualifies Ned at all!!It's odd how the one firm clue that definitively rules out one of the candidates is so often and so quickly dismissed.Ned is never described as 'short of stature'. He was 18 at the time, and a man grown. How do we know this? Because if he was significantly shorter when he married Cat (a scant year or so later) than he was as an adult, that would be remarkable. Surely something Cat would think of when she thinks of their wedding.So Ned is out, I'm afraid.lyanna was 16 when she died, not at the sack.see above.she was a young girl. thats all the evidence needed.Our best evidence is that she was 16 at the Sack.her gender and age together (but mostly her gender) certainly do disqualify her from this, imoYou may be in for a shock. Certainly, people who know far more than me about the series have never ruled her out...ETA - watch the spoilers, folks, however minor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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