the trees have eyes Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Yes he was. Benjen offered him his own armor so that Howland could take his revenge in the lists, but he refused. So, now that this has been debunked, do you have some other explanation for Howland entering the tourney as a mystery knight?You still haven't answered my main question: why did the author choose to present this as a secret, a mystery? If it's just meant to give us background detail, then he could easily have simply revealed who the KotLT was. Waiting to reveal it later just builds up the mystery too much in comparison to the story's main purpose.It's not the "odd scrap", it's a series of quotes that consistently describes Lyanna as the warrior-made type. George would not have put these various scenes and descriptions in if that was not his intent. You are literally the only person I've ever seen argue that Lyanna was not this type of woman, which is why your position is so baffling to me.And I'd like some empirical evidence to support your claim that Howland used magic to instantly become a good rider and jouster. At least my claim that Lyanna could've been a good jouster is more realistic compared to your claim that Howland suddenly became a good jouster just because.Now, if you're looking for "proof" that Lyanna was a good jouster, then there isn't any. But no one here is arguing based on proof, we're arguing from inferences and interpretations of the text. And the text states on two separate occasions that being a good rider is the most important component to being a good jouster, and one of these passages even re-iterates that Lyanna was an amazing rider. Do you seriously not see what the author is trying to tell you?Yes, she was alone.I wouldn't expect them to beat Lyanna or anything, but I'd at least expect them to attempt to disarm her or something. No one likes being chased off by a girl.Are you sure he Is eligible? It's an interesting point. I always assumed the riders had to be knights or squires. If I remember correctly Jory and Alyn ride in The Tourney of the Hand to represent Ned but I always thought this was an exemption because, the Northmen keeping their own gods rarely take the vows to the Seven required to become a knight and someone needed to ride in Ned's name. Ser Jorah, Ser Rodrik and the Manderleys are the exceptions (the last being exiled Southerners from the Mander after all). But there are freeriders in The Tourney of The Hand (Lothor Brune at least I think) as well as Bronze Yohn Royce who may or not be a knight. I think that as someone who was not a knight and did not follow the faith of the Seven Howland would not be allowed to enter. Sufficient birth and social status might overcome those impediments - Bronze Yohn? any of the Starks - but the Crannogmen are second class citizens, sometimes hunted by the Freys according to Jojen, Howland being the son of the Lord of the Crannogmen carries as much weight as Timett being leader of the Burned Men (they are both savages in the eyes of Westerosi high society) so he doesn't fit the bill. Hence the mystery knight ploy.Add to that he is worried about shaming his people and a disguise is doubly appealing.Why did GRRM choose to keep it a mystery? Well, why did he choose to leave Arya at knife-point at the end of AGOT, or Brienne danglng from a rope at the end of AFFC? Why didn't he finish Old Nan's story to Bran about the Long Night? To create suspense or an air of mystery - to keep us guessing.For you the only point of this story is to light up another neon sign about Jon's parents. I think there is so much more of interest than that. What exactly did Howland learn on the Isle of Faces, how many Children are still there and what role will they play in the story, how is that connected to Jojen's greensight? Something important happened to HR - that is the point of the story for me, and the fact that his children have appeared but he hasn't intrigues me. We know that the greenesers had power over every beast that ran or swam or flew, we know Howland spent a year with the Children, that he prayed to the old gods before the joust: these are the kind of clues that when they support the theory that Lyanna is the KOTLT you say are obvious signs that the author is trying to show us the knight's identity but discount when they point the other way. That does cut both ways.What is the point about the Crannogman's visit to the Isle of Faces if not to have some bearing on the story? I have nothing empirical at all about Howland being blessed by magic in the jousts and I'll happily admit it. But I do think there are hints same as you think there are hints but have nothing empirical that Lyanna learned to be an excellent jouster.We didn't need a tale of that length and with that strange little visit to the Isle of Faces just to hint who Jon's parents are. Something else is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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